An interesting read about Active Speakers: Has their time come

microstrip · Mar 12, 2013

audioguy said:
I don't believe I said that. In fact I said ZERO about dynamics in passive speakers. I have heard passive speakers that have incredible dynamics. A couple that come to mind that I have actually heard are the Scaena, Magico. I'm sure there are more.

I don't claim to know all of the reasons why audiophiles don't select active speakers. I stated my opinion and I stand by it. Apparently you did not choose them for those reasons. Good for you.

Audioguy,

Please note I did not say you said it.

As we were debating actives versus passives and you referred that:

audioguy said:
(...) I have only heard a few active speaker systems and one of the standout qualities across each of them seemed to be dynamics. (...)

I asked you a question in the sequence of your comment, as your comment could have show a common trait in actives. Apologies if my formulation made it appear that it was your opinion - I was just looking for a straight answer.

JackD201 · Mar 12, 2013

Robh3606 said:
Hello Klaus

What about the load the individual driver presents?? Why does everone assume that a passive crossover presents an "unfriendly load" to the amp?? Has anyone bothered to look at driver impedence loads before making such a generalization?? Well here is a speaker system using essentially the same drivers as the plot for the individual drivers. Looking at the plots which looks easier to drive, the complete system or the individual drivers??

Rob

I was thinking exactly that Rob.

JackD201 · Mar 12, 2013

One of the things hindering active is the proliferation of really bad active products on the market. While it would be wrong to associate these with those that are really good like say the ATCs, ADAM Tensors, etc. It happens. Ask anybody if he's heard actives and it would likely be some crappy prosumer monitor or something like a JBL EON clone. All brute force, no nuance.

andromedaaudio · Mar 12, 2013

Ive heard meridian , expensive linn systems and lyingdorf , cant remeber whether lyingdorf was fully active probably yes with some sort of sound control , i found linn the best off the bunch , the others i wouldnt even call " high end"

Phelonious Ponk · Mar 12, 2013

microstrip said:
Tim,

Perhaps you should start a thread entitled "What I think most audiophiles like". Almost all your opinions about audiophile matters are not based on your listening experiences (or at less you do not document them) but on your vision and beliefs about the audiophile people. I have now doubts that your descriptions are accurately describing a few audiophiles, but your generalization using systematically "many" and "most" in a forum filled with knowledgeable and experienced audiophiles (they even read and participate in WBF , exposing their opinions to open scrutiny) is at less strange.

It would be nice to know what you consider most. More than 68, 95 or 99%?

Micro, my listening experiences have been documented here many times, but they are, unfortunately, boring compared to the neuroses of many audiophiles. Most? 51% is all that's required.

Tim

Bruce B · Mar 12, 2013

Here's what I'm reviewing now for Stereomojo....

opus111 · Mar 12, 2013

Looks like MTM with Peerless P830656, same bass/mid I have in my speakers. What amps (chipamps?) are inside?

Bruce B · Mar 12, 2013

opus111 said:
Looks like MTM with Peerless P830656, same bass/mid I have in my speakers. What amps (chipamps?) are inside?

The manual states "Three low distortion 130 watt class AB amplifiers" The tweeters are Scan-speak.

They are heavy as HELL... Much heavier than my Focal Twin6 be speakers.

Phelonious Ponk · Mar 12, 2013

What are they?

Tim

opus111 · Mar 12, 2013

Bruce B said:
The manual states "Three low distortion 130 watt class AB amplifiers".

When the blurb feels it necessary to describe amps as 'low distortion' I'm betting that means 'high noise'

If you get to take them apart I'll be curious to see pics of the amps, crossovers (presumably opamps) and associated PSUs.

Bruce B · Mar 12, 2013

Phelonious Ponk said:
What are they?

Tim

PTE Phoenix

Sammy T · Mar 12, 2013

I have a pair of fully active speakers. These are very special , the only ones ever made that are quad amped pure class A four way speaker. Rushmore made by Pass Labs.

Bruce B · Mar 12, 2013

Sammy T said:
I have a pair of fully active speakers. These are very special , the only ones ever made that are quad amped pure class A four way speaker. Rushmore made by Pass Labs.

Would LOVE to see photos of those!

Sammy T · Mar 13, 2013

Picture of the Rushmore speaker by Pass Labs . Replaced original Raven tweeter with a newer Raal Ribbon , other drivers are PHL . On top of the speakers are some added custom lead weights that I made , about 95 Lbs total .

KlausR. · Mar 13, 2013

Hi Rob,

Rob said:
What about the load the individual driver presents?? Why does everone assume that a passive crossover presents an "unfriendly load" to the amp??

I’m no EE, so it’s highly likely that I misunderstood this issue.

Anyway, here’s what wiki says about active X-overs:

Despite the cost and complication disadvantages, active crossovers provide the following advantages over passive ones:

* frequency response independent of the dynamic changes in a driver's electrical characteristics.
*typically, the possibility of an easy way to vary or fine tune each frequency band to the specific drivers used. Examples would be crossover slope, filter type (e.g., Bessel, Butterworth, etc.), relative levels, ...
*better isolation of each driver from signals handled by other drivers, thus reducing intermodulation distortion and overdriving
*The power amplifiers are directly connected to the speaker drivers, thereby maximizing amplifier damping control of the speaker voice coil, reducing consequences of dynamic changes in driver electrical characteristics, all of which are likely to improve the transient response of the system
*reduction in power amplifier output requirement. With no energy being lost in passive components, amplifier requirements are reduced considerably (up to 1/2 in some cases), reducing costs, and potentially increasing quality.
* only C, R and op-amps necessary, no L
* parts don’t need to have high power rating, miniaturisation and complex designs possible

There’s no passage describing the advantages of passive over active, apart from lower costs and less complexity. Up to now only technical advantages of active vs passive have been mentioned, what about technical advantages of passive vs active, are there any, if yes, what are they?

Klaus

LL21 · Mar 13, 2013

Sammy T said:
View attachment 8756 Picture of the Rushmore speaker by Pass Labs . Replaced original Raven tweeter with a newer Raal Ribbon , other drivers are PHL . On top of the speakers are some added custom lead weights that I made , about 95 Lbs total .

Very cool. Enjoy! Are all the amps inside or the speakers or just outside?

audioguy · Mar 13, 2013

Phelonious Ponk said:
Micro, my listening experiences have been documented here many times, but they are, unfortunately, boring compared to the neuroses of many audiophiles. Most? 51% is all that's required.

Tim

I vote to change "many" to "most"

microstrip · Mar 13, 2013

audioguy said:
I vote to change "many" to "most"

I am starting to believe that ownership of pure active speakers makes people see imaginary states of audiophile anxiety in the owners of passive speakers ...

Note

We should consider that the American Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM) has eliminated the category of "neurosis", reflecting a decision by the editors to provide descriptions of behavior as opposed to hidden psychological mechanisms as diagnostic criteria,and, according to The American Heritage Medical Dictionary, it is "no longer used in psychiatric diagnosis". Instead, the disorders once classified as neuroses are now considered anxiety disorders. [/I ] (quoted from Wikipedia)

Sammy T · Mar 13, 2013

Amps inside the speaker cabinet .

Bruce B · Mar 13, 2013

microstrip said:
I am starting to believe that ownership of pure active speakers makes people see imaginary states of audiophile anxiety in the owners of passive speakers ...

I have both..... what does that say??

An interesting read about Active Speakers: Has their time come

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