Equi~Tech vs Torus

audioblazer

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JMF is closer to you, so service should be easier. Also try their Power Cord, heard good things about it especially at their price. Want to visit them once. Ask audioblazer, he knows more about their power conditioner.

Did not do much comparison with other conditioners . Was alerted by some users to the product & my friend connected his Trinity Mono to the JMF Conditioner & what a massive improvement .
Also have the opportunity to hear the full JMF audio set up at Hifideluxe Marriott Hotel 2015- so impressed by what I heard . JMF audio with pro audio background know what they are doing
 

cuntigh

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Asked for JMF Audio's price : too high for me but the concept is very interesting and not seen anywhere esle I think. I noted they feed the conditinner with 2 power cables for having 30 amp (in Europe) power for feeding big systems without losses and without a specialmains and big gauge cable from the breaker. Very clever. Maybe I will try their Power cable soon.
 

cuntigh

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Just received my AVR 16 CE Torus today. I installed everything on it : both amps, the pre, analog and digital sources. I connected it at 12 and listenned at 8.30 PM.
Bang bang : this baby shot me down. A Bybee Holographic for sale. The first time I went to actice filtering instead of passive... So much time lost. I go back in the listening room.
 

George K

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Jul 26, 2012
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Just received my AVR 16 CE Torus today. I installed everything on it : both amps, the pre, analog and digital sources. I connected it at 12 and listenned at 8.30 PM.
Bang bang : this baby shot me down. A Bybee Holographic for sale. The first time I went to actice filtering instead of passive... So much time lost. I go back in the listening room.

Congrats Torus Power is the best power product. I've heard AVR16 CE at my dealer's system with and without it and it's a killer.
I've ordered AVR8 CE (although RM8 CE was more than enough) and I am very happy.
My system power consumption is adequate with RM8/AVR8 and my amplifiers and rest of the gear were never more satisfied and now just sing.
 

Ron Resnick

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Jan 24, 2015
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Just received my AVR 16 CE Torus today. I installed everything on it : both amps, the pre, analog and digital sources. I connected it at 12 and listenned at 8.30 PM.
Bang bang : this baby shot me down. A Bybee Holographic for sale. The first time I went to actice filtering instead of passive... So much time lost. I go back in the listening room.

The AVR 16 CE has an isolation transformer but it does not output balanced power, correct?

I was wondering -- did you evaluate a Torus device with balanced power? If so, did you simply prefer sonically the isolation transformer without balanced power?
 

microstrip

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The AVR 16 CE has an isolation transformer but it does not output balanced power, correct?

I was wondering -- did you evaluate a Torus device with balanced power? If so, did you simply prefer sonically the isolation transformer without balanced power?

We do not have balanced power in Europe, so the European models do not have "balanced power". In a short run there is no real improvement for a simple audio system in having balanced output power - all mains noise going out of the Torus is now common mode noise and is not rejected by transformers. We must remember that Torus uses a technique called Narrow Bandwidth Technology that absorbs the noise in the magnetic core.

If you correctly orient the mains plug - something that must be done when using most Shucko plugs, that are symmetric, minimizing ground leakage, IMHO then you do not have any benefit using balanced power in Europe.
 
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cuntigh

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Dec 20, 2014
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The AVR 16 CE has an isolation transformer but it does not output balanced power, correct?

I was wondering -- did you evaluate a Torus device with balanced power? If so, did you simply prefer sonically the isolation transformer without balanced power?

Hi Ron,

Sorry for the late answer. No unfortunately balanced is not possible at that time for Europe (that's what I heard from Torus). Îthink there is no agrement yet. I didn't compare. First I contacted Equi=tech twice but they never answered. So Torus was the One for me and I don't regret.
 

xandcg

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Oct 13, 2015
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We do not have balanced power in Europe, so the European models do not have "balanced power". In a short run there is no real improvement for a simple audio system in having balanced output power - all mains noise going out of the Torus is now common mode noise and is not rejected by transformers. We must remember that Torus uses a technique called Narrow Bandwidth Technology that absorbs the noise in the magnetic core.

If you correctly orient the mains plug - something that must be done when using most Shucko plugs, that are symmetric, minimizing ground leakage, IMHO then you do not have any benefit using balanced power in Europe.

Torus uses Plitron transformers, and Equitech buy from Maryland Transformers. You can simple buy the transformer with the specs you want and have someone to build the entire system for you (safely). You can also buy balanced transformers like the Equitech one from Plitron. It will be certainly end up cheaper than import a complete assembled and "marketed" one to Europe.

The AIO from Torus was created around those specifications: http://www.ground1.com/low_noise_guide.htm

And yes, you can have balanced mains in Europe - in UK I do not know, and should be too dangerous. Indeed, I know of a guy in Paris whom EDF installed a huge three phase balanced transformer for his studio due to the crap mains in France - but also most part of Europe, specially in Germany: http://instituteforenergyresearch.org/analysis/germanys-green-energy-destabilizing-electric-grids/

PS. in order to maintain phase coherence between the components I use Neutrik PowerCON only. So, there is no way install it wrong.
 

bonzo75

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Feb 26, 2014
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Hi couple of questions...

Why would it be too dangerous in the UK?

What is the advantagae of Neutrik PowerCON. I heard certain components sound better when plus is connected in the wrong phase? Isn't it better to try connecting both ways and see what works?
 

xandcg

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Oct 13, 2015
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@bonzo75

From a Brit fellow:

UK mains sockets are polarised and have separate live, neutral and protective earth conductors. The Neutral line is defined to be at the same potential as the protective earth (it's actually fed from the star point of the local substation where it is also connected to an earth stake). The Live is at nominally 230V AC relative to Neutral (and Earth).

If an appliance develops a fault it requires a fuse in the live conductor to cut the supply. This may occur due to the device drawing too much current, or excessive current returning via the protective earth due to an insulation fault. For this reason, appliances designed to operate in the UK usually have a fuse fitted in the live supply conductor (and only the live conductor) so that, if a fault causes it to fail, the whole device remains at a safe (Neutral) potential.

If you're going to feed a device from a balanced supply, you need a fuse in the neutral conductor as well, since a fault to earth could draw current through both live and neutral conductors. So, the first problem is that the device could draw as much fault current through the neutral line as it likes, possibly enough to start a fire, without causing the fuse to disconnect it.

Let's say you fuse both the live and neutral lines inside the device. You then have the problem that, if the device simply takes too much current without an earth fault, the fuse in either the live or neutral line could fail, but not both. This leaves the device at a dangerous potential internally despite the fact that the current flow has stopped, whereas, with the usual unbalanced supply in the UK, the device sits at neutral potential internally.

Some of this could be mitigated by the use of an RCD on the "balanced" side of the supply, admittedly, because considerable ground current would flow in these scenarios, but RCDs do fail. The primary protection needs to be a fuse, IMHO, and they simply aren't fitted to most appliances in the UK.

Balanced supplies do work in other countries and installations without leaving a trail of destruction behind them, admittedly, and often with equipment that's pretty much identical to that marketed in the UK. To use one domestically in the UK is to deviate from convention and, in my mind, for no good reason. If such a setup caused a fire and, heaven forbid, a death in a home in the UK I wouldn't fancy the job or arguing to an expert witness that the increase in "dynamics" or reduction in the "noise floor" was worth deviating from the electrical standards mandated by law in the UK.

In regards to the second question, all components should be connected equal to avoid/minimize current leakage, what may also bring noise. If a component works better inverted I personally consider it poor designed and not use it. Looking on the UK example, there you just have one way to connect since the P + N + G should be on the same position on all wall outlets. Of course it can be made with any plug, the Neutrik one is the one I like due to its locking system and I never found anything with better connection.

NOTICE: It is very important to have all components connected to the same reference ground.

IMO, before buy anything related to power conditioner the person should first take care to have a really proper wired room (again the ground1 page is very usefull), then measure whats is going on mains to know what is need to be addressed, and than buy what is needed. Solving problems you do not have can make the things ever worse.

Another good read: http://www.audiosystemsgroup.com/SurgeXPowerGround.pdf

Other point people do not know is related with mains requirements of amplifiers, which should be very considered for peaks. I do not remember how to do the calculation now but as reference a 1200W Class AB amplifier needs 1800W of current to work at full power. Most amplifiers do not ever have a power supply to handle it. You can find out running your amplifier at full power for about a hour, if it have a properly made power supply it will run, otherwise will die.

The "power requirements" on the component papers is related of what they think will be needed on average usage. In the past (first hoalf of XX Century) the papers bring it at full power but they changed when the amplifiers become too powerful - imagine (total) 500.000W amplifiers for a live concert would need a sub-station just to start, and will not use it.

It is very OK because this information is a lot of more useful for everyone, but the problem appeared when the industry began to make the power supplies also based/sized on that specifications and not on the full power requirements, ever the high end one - what I call scam. Basically most (i.e.) 1200W Class AB amplifiers have power supplies of a 900W one.

An amplifier (or anything) with a not well sized power supply will never sound as it can with a proper one, specially on peaks.

PS. balanced power is real, it works but can remove up to 10dB of noise. Most of the benefices people have when start using BP usually are more related with the proper wired room and the isolated ground it force you to have, otherswise it will not work as it should be and can make the things worse - not to say unsafe too.

I personally would consider BP as the next-thing to do, but I do not like how BP sound, I feel the bass become fake sounding.
 
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cuntigh

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Dec 20, 2014
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Hello all,
There is a thread on another forum about Core Power Technologies that is a Balanced power cable or power conditionner and I' like to know if those of you who already have an active conditionner, I mean a big transfo, like a Torus or a PS Audio or an Accuphase, that doesn't balance power could have interest in adding a CPT behind it for powering in a balanced way, some or all of their components ?
 

KLH007

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Where to put CPT Balanced Power E=Q devices

Hello all,
There is a thread on another forum about Core Power Technologies that is a Balanced power cable or power conditionner and I' like to know if those of you who already have an active conditionner, I mean a big transfo, like a Torus or a PS Audio or an Accuphase, that doesn't balance power could have interest in adding a CPT behind it for powering in a balanced way, some or all of their components ?

A quick email to CPT gave me a surprise answer, plug your PS P10 or other conditioner directly into the wall outlet, plug the E=Q into that, plug your equipment into the E=Q cord/device. This allows your equipment's transformer better use of the balanced power, and also in the future will allow the "Deep Core" product from CPT to tune the interface between the E=Q and your kit's transformer.
 

cuntigh

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Dec 20, 2014
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Wow !
Imagine you could have one music source with one integrated feeded with 3 different power sources ...it sounds crazy. But maybe it could sound crazy...good
 

Chuck Lee

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Feb 5, 2015
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I have the Torus RM 20.It is balanced and requires that you use 240 wiring at the panel.Very simple.Follow the guidelines and rules.
I've had other power conditioners, some were balanced but none that were configured at the panel as this one is.
And none of them let as much music flow out of them.
 

George K

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Jul 26, 2012
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I have the Torus RM 20.It is balanced and requires that you use 240 wiring at the panel.Very simple.Follow the guidelines and rules.
I've had other power conditioners, some were balanced but none that were configured at the panel as this one is.
And none of them let as much music flow out of them.

Great.
 

chrisr

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For those of you with Torus units, do you hear ANY hum from the unit? Particularly for the stand-alone units that can be placed on an equipment rack?

Thanks.
 

George K

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Jul 26, 2012
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No hum here, as well.

Have you checked your Torus capacity if it is a match for your amp?
Maybe you have a smaller Torus model for your amps.
 

Chuck Lee

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Feb 5, 2015
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Some one told me some toroid transformers can hum or be noisy if there is some DC on the AC.I once had a 20 amp Furman.It used to hum at certain times of the day.This was sporadic not continuous.This unit was initially plugged into the wall then on a 20 amp dedicated line,and that helped a lot.I also have a smaller Furman 1210 that is plugged into the wall,no dedicated lines and it has never made a hum.I still use it in my Home Theatre set up.
 

dminches

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Oct 22, 2011
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I am still wavering between the Torus wall mount and Equi=tech wall mount units. They accomplish noise reduction in different ways. Equi=tech has balanced power out and Torus does not. There is no way to A/B them so at some point I will have to just decide.

Both companies have been very helpful in describing their products and deciding which sized unit I need.

The Equi=tech unit is a couple thousand more expensive than the Torus so that isn't a huge consideration.
 

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