2xDSD Playback through PC server to PCM DAC

garylkoh · Feb 25, 2013

A good buddy (retired cop) had some spare time on his hands, and did the research to figure out how to rip SACDs.... but as he didn't have many of his own, volunteered to rip mine for practice. I had far more than I expected. Going through my piles of CDs, I also discovered a huge bunch of hybrid CDs/SACDs that I sent to him. Now that I got it back, how to play them all. I have nearly half a dozen DACs, only one of which played native DSD. I've also got lots of native DSD files courtesy of my recording engineer friends.

Enter the Super Audio CD Decoder for foobar - http://sourceforge.net/projects/sacddecoder/

Now, every one of my systems will play DSD files

I did a few quick comparisons of a few tracks between the DSD and the Redbook layer, and on every one, I much preferred the DSD converted to PCM. This was on an M2Tech Young DAC.

Mike Lavigne · Feb 25, 2013

garylkoh said:
A good buddy (retired cop) had some spare time on his hands, and did the research to figure out how to rip SACDs.... but as he didn't have many of his own, volunteered to rip mine for practice. I had far more than I expected. Going through my piles of CDs, I also discovered a huge bunch of hybrid CDs/SACDs that I sent to him. Now that I got it back, how to play them all. I have nearly half a dozen DACs, only one of which played native DSD. I've also got lots of native DSD files courtesy of my recording engineer friends.

Enter the Super Audio CD Decoder for foobar - http://sourceforge.net/projects/sacddecoder/

Now, every one of my systems will play DSD files

I did a few quick comparisons of a few tracks between the DSD and the Redbook layer, and on every one, I much preferred the DSD converted to PCM. This was on an M2Tech Young DAC.

Gary,

i've had to read your post a few times to 'maybe' get an understanding of what you are saying here. please correct me if i am missing your meaning.

when you say that you prefer dsd converted to PCM, you mean that you prefer the soundforge plugin for foobar playing dsd files converting them to PCM played thru the M2Tech Young DAC.....to......native dsd files played thru your M2Tech Young DAC.

did i get that right?

if so; have you asked your 'recording engineer friends' whether they have compared playing dsd files thru soundforge/foobar to their SOTA dsd dacs? in other words, does the quality of the dsd DAC change the equation?

thanks. just wanting to make sure i'm following your meaning here.

docvale · Feb 25, 2013

I might be wrong, but I got that Gary preferred DSD->PCM rather than Redbook standard, even if DSD has not been played natively.

Mike Lavigne · Feb 25, 2013

docvale said:
I might be wrong, but I got that Gary preferred DSD->PCM rather than Redbook standard, even if DSD has not been played natively.

you might be right. he does say "a few quick comparisons of a few tracks between DSD and the Redbook layer".

garylkoh · Feb 25, 2013

docvale said:
I might be wrong, but I got that Gary preferred DSD->PCM rather than Redbook standard, even if DSD has not been played natively.

Correct. As far as I know (may be a newer one does) the M2Tech Young does not play DSD. This set-up is so that I can use all my systems to play the DSD albums I now have (several hundred) without having to go through the pain of converting them to PCM.

I'm comparing the SACD layer to the Redbook layer on Hybrid SACDs - with both layers ripped to my server.

opus111 · Feb 25, 2013

The layers are usually different - on one particular (Sting) album I looked at there was very heavy compression used on the PCM layer when the two were eyeballed in Audacity. Seems the 'loudness war' only has been affecting RBCD.

NorthStar · Feb 25, 2013

-- ...But usually, the CD layer (PCM) of an hybrid SACD is directly derived from the DSD recording, no? ...And it usually sounds better than a straight PCM recording because of that DSD's origin (implementation/recording technique)?

Just as a quick example: All my Rolling Stones SACDs, the CD layers sound much cleaner, more resolute, with better clarity, stronger and tighter bass than all my original Rolling Stones CDs.

...Same with Bob Dylan, and all the rest of the gang. ...Much better remastering sound.

garylkoh · Feb 25, 2013

opus111 said:
The layers are usually different - on one particular (Sting) album I looked at there was very heavy compression used on the PCM layer when the two were eyeballed in Audacity. Seems the 'loudness war' only has been affecting RBCD.

That's why I wanted to get the SACD layers ripped, and have some way to play them back.

garylkoh · Feb 25, 2013

NorthStar said:
-- ...But usually, the CD layer (PCM) of an hybrid SACD is directly derived from the DSD recording, no?

Unfortunately, sometimes the SACD layer is derived from the redbook

NorthStar · Feb 25, 2013

garylkoh said:
Unfortunately, sometimes the SACD layer is derived from the redbook

Yes, I know; that's why I said "usually".

Orb · Feb 26, 2013

opus111 said:
The layers are usually different - on one particular (Sting) album I looked at there was very heavy compression used on the PCM layer when the two were eyeballed in Audacity. Seems the 'loudness war' only has been affecting RBCD.

Just as well DSD is not universal yet then, because I am sure that layer remaster would also then be shafted with extra loudness-dynamic compression

Although raises the point of how both were processed inside the studio for the same album.
Cheers
Orb

thestewman · Feb 27, 2013

garylkoh said:
Unfortunately, sometimes the SACD layer is derived from the redbook

This may be where HD Tracks is getting some of their "HiRez" PCM files

Bruce B · Feb 27, 2013

thestewman said:
This may be where HD Tracks is getting some of their "HiRez" PCM files

I don't know of ANY SACD layer that has been derived from Redbook. I should know, I've been doing this for HDtracks since '08

There has been SACD layers from 24/44.1 and 24/48 Mostly the BIS label and the rest has been weeded out.

opus111 · Feb 27, 2013

thestewman said:
This may be where HD Tracks is getting some of their "HiRez" PCM files

I have at least one 88k2/24bit download from HDTracks which has been sourced from DSD. I don't think there's any secret about that - the ultrasonic noise is very obvious.

Bruce B · Feb 27, 2013

opus111 said:
I have at least one 88k2/24bit download from HDTracks which has been sourced from DSD. I don't think there's any secret about that - the ultrasonic noise is very obvious.

I've done ALL of HDtracks transfers from SACD at 176.4 and 88.2

thestewman · Feb 27, 2013

Here is a prime example on a Blue Note SACD The Norah Jones, Come Away With Me album

http://www.stereophile.com/thefifthelement/1104fifth

Bruce B · Feb 27, 2013

thestewman said:
Here is a prime example on a Blue Note SACD The Norah Jones, Come Away With Me album

http://www.stereophile.com/thefifthelement/1104fifth

This title is NOT on HDtracks...

rbbert · Feb 27, 2013

Bruce B said:
This title is NOT on HDtracks...

Actually, it is, in 24/192 and 24/96. I have no idea how it sounds or measures, though.

Bruce B · Feb 27, 2013

rbbert said:
Actually, it is, in 24/192 and 24/96. I have no idea how it sounds or measures, though.

Guess there are 2 headings for Norah Jones... these files came from Chad from the master tapes

rbbert · Feb 27, 2013

The "Come Away With Me" is one of the Sterling Sound transfers, I think.

I'm not sure why I'm posting about this, I don't care about her music...

2xDSD Playback through PC server to PCM DAC

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