I Believe in Power Cords

mep

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Apr 20, 2010
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I thought I started a thread on this before, but damned if I can find it. As some of you know that read my "Krell Saga" thread, I bought a KSA-250 amp that was DOA and I sent it back to the factory to be repaired and recapped. When it came back to me, there was a hum from both speakers and I had to send it back again. Before the Krell came back to me from the factory for the second time, I asked them to send me a new power cord for it. What they sent back looked like a cheap power cord you would get with a computer. The power cords for both my Krell KRC-HR and Krell KPE Reference phono pre are way more beefier.

I bought the Pangea AC-9 which is a 7 gauge power cord to replace the cheap power cord that I was dubious could even pass 15A let alone 20A from the dedicated 20A circuit I have for the KSA-250. The Pangea is a monster and weighs a ton. It makes the other cord look like a joke. The cool thing about using it so far is that even though Krell had fixed the hum problem I had with the KSA-250 that was coming through the speakers, you could still hear the transformer itself making some noise if you got up close to the amp. The new power cord has stopped that noise completely. I thought the noise was inevitable due to how big the damn transformer is (4.3kVa). I don't know if the transformer was making some racket due to being current 'starved,' all I know is that with the new Pangea AC-9 the noise is gone and that alone is worth the $100 or so I paid for this PC.

All of which leads to another discussion on dynamic range. Every time you lower the noise floor of your room and/or your gear, the overall dynamic range of your system increases which is always a good thing in my book. There is no doubt in my mind that buying the Pangea AC-9 was a solid investment. There is also no doubt in my mind that the cable elevators I purchased recently and wrote about was another positive investment as they brought about a slight reduction in the noise floor. We can argue whether that slight improvement was due to getting the speaker cables away from power cords laying across them (my guess) or whether it's due to preventing the interaction of synthetic fibers from the carpet messing with the speaker cables, but I do believe the cable elevators make a positive impact on lowering the noise floor of your system. Is it huge? No. Does it count though and bring a beneficial change? I certainly think so. And remember, once your system reaches a certain level, meaningful increases in sound quality are usually quite costly.
 

Snoop65

New Member
Apr 19, 2012
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A galaxy far far away
I support power cords. They made a nice improvement in my system. My thoughts on why they work are better flow of electricity and rfi filtering which lowers the noise floor and improves transparency.
 

Peter Breuninger

[Industry Expert] Member Sponsor
Jul 20, 2010
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*Warning* This could be controversial.
One way to think of power cords is to think that they are an extension of the component's power supply function. Some PCs work wonders on some components and the same PCs do nothing (sonically) on others. It can depend on your local power grid, time of day, etc.
 

Johnny Vinyl

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
May 16, 2010
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*Warning* This could be controversial.
One way to think of power cords is to think that they are an extension of the component's power supply function. Some PCs work wonders on some components and the same PCs do nothing (sonically) on others. It can depend on your local power grid, time of day, etc.


Peter - Can they have a detrimental effect? I might need a new PC of a longer length (12ft) and can't afford to spend hundreds of dollars on one. Something like the Pangea or a Mogami can be had for a reasonable price.
 

garylkoh

WBF Technical Expert (Speakers & Audio Equipment)
Sep 6, 2010
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*Warning* This could be controversial.
One way to think of power cords is to think that they are an extension of the component's power supply function. Some PCs work wonders on some components and the same PCs do nothing (sonically) on others. It can depend on your local power grid, time of day, etc.

Hey Peter, that's what I say too. The job of the power cord is to properly interface the component's power supply into the wall, and not to extend the (sometimes crappy) wall wiring into the component. That is why a power cord that someone thinks is miraculous into his turntable may make another guy's preamp or DAC closed-in and dark. IMHO even different types of power amp (Class A, Class AB) require two different designs of power cord.
 

treitz3

Super Moderator
Staff member
Dec 25, 2011
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The tube lair in beautiful Rock Hill, SC
IMHO even different types of power amp (Class A, Class AB) require two different designs of power cord.

Hello, Gary. This, I would be interested in learning more about [I have Class A/B]. BTW, IMO there is nothing to "believe". They can and do make a difference. This is almost always situation dependent IME and for those that can't hear any difference, your wallet thanks you. I'm sure my wallet has some harsh words for me but at least my ears are thanking me.

Tom
 

jazdoc

Member Sponsor
Aug 7, 2010
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This is an interesting thread for me right now as I have a couple pairs of Found-Music power cords on the way for demo...
 

Gregadd

WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
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Metro DC

NorthStar

Member
Feb 8, 2011
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-- As always, with cables (power cords, interconnects, speaker wires, power conditioners/rejuvenetors/regulators/purifiers/surge protectors, ...), try in your own system first (experiment and listen).

And never buy first.
 

Peter Breuninger

[Industry Expert] Member Sponsor
Jul 20, 2010
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Peter - Can they have a detrimental effect? I might need a new PC of a longer length (12ft) and can't afford to spend hundreds of dollars on one. Something like the Pangea or a Mogami can be had for a reasonable price.

I've not heard a detrimental effect with aftermarket PCs. You may also want to look at Shunyata Research lower priced cords. Bob Grossman likes them.
 

DonH50

Member Sponsor & WBF Technical Expert
Jun 22, 2010
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My system is very quiet without a power cord.

The biggest benefits I have seen are from a larger gauge, though anything larger than the 12 or 14 guage in your wall is wasted, and having the additional ground wire if the original cord had no separate ground. I suspect some of the improvements heard may be from the wiping action when unplugging and plugging in a new cord (clearing oxidation from the plug and receptacle).

Generally speaking I do not see how a few feet of power cable into hundreds of feet in-wall and miles of external cable matters. One caveat: there could be some sort of filtering effect if the cable is shielded and thus acts as a transmission line filter for certain RFI issues. Or, of course, if the cable has filtering built in that provides noise suppression from on-line noise. And assuming the component itself has inadequate input RFI filtering, certainly a possibility. I have heard and measured benefits from RFI filtering and am wondering now if that is the real benefit of some of these power cables.
 

rbbert

Well-Known Member
Dec 12, 2010
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Many power cables do have magnetic RFI filters (and you could always add your own to any power cord). MIT's, for one, usually have some network boxes (of some kind) on their PC's; my MIT Z-cord has two.
 

FrantzM

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
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Hi

My take on Power. Clean it before it hits your system. A power cord is not the best way. I would surmise the following. Once Power Quality is addressed difference between power cords (if any) vanishes. This is my experience. I am currently running my headphones based rig on an a double conversion APC and PCs make no difference in my opinion, in my system. This results mirrors those I had with my former system with the double conversion Telco Grade UPS.

It takes us audiophiles a long to digest certain concepts however sound (pun intended) they may be. There exist several interesting and relatively inexpensive power quality solutions. For the most part audiophiles ignore them.

At the end if painting the room or changing any accessories enhance the pleasure one derives from his/her system .. it's all good
 

treitz3

Super Moderator
Staff member
Dec 25, 2011
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Generally speaking I do not see how a few feet of power cable into hundreds of feet in-wall and miles of external cable matters.
Hello, Don. Generally speaking, I can not argue. Perhaps it's what you had mentioned above, I'm the last one to verify or prove this to be true. One test I have always invited folks to try if they are on the fence as to what hits your ears [measurements aside] goes as follows;

What you want to do is find an accurately recorded, bass heavy album. A good one to use would be something like Donald Fagan's "Morph the Cat" or perhaps Tool's "Undertow". Something along the likes of those and not some badly recorded, computer generated bass or bass that is so compressed that you can't even realize what instrument is making the noise to begin with. Now that you have found the reference recording, use a physical disc and a CDP for this test and do not rely on any music server. Now, take your mains and disable them completely to where they are making absolutely no noise whatsoever.

With the sub and only the sub running, play the CD until you are certain that you have achieved a loud enough volume to see the woofer moving and feel the bass output strong enough to appreciate but not so loud that you fear for blowing the sub itself. Sit back and listen to the sub and only the sub at that level for about a minute or two with the stock power cord. Get used to the impact, how it loads the room and the overall sound at your listening position.

Now, without touching anything other than stop on the CDP.....power everything else down and swap out just the PC on the sub with a worthy* upgraded one [*not one from the Rat Shack, in other words]. Turn everything back on making sure that nothing else is moved or altered in any way whatsoever and proceed to play the same selection. Go back to your listening position and note any differences that you observe.

While this may have nothing to do with the imaging and sound staging characteristics [or many other characteristics for that matter], I have found over the years that this is a great basic test to see if a power cord can make a change for the better in someone's rig that utilizes all stock power cords and allows for the diehard PC "can't make a difference" person to hear what they never thought possible before. The reviews vary but for those who have tried, their audio journey can continue without reservation or self-imposed limits.

Tom
 

NorthStar

Member
Feb 8, 2011
24,305
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435
Vancouver Island, B.C. Canada
I've not heard a detrimental effect with aftermarket PCs. You may also want to look at Shunyata Research lower priced cords. Bob Grossman likes them.

I've heard all good things (excellent performance/value ratio) about Shunyata power cords and all.
 

Bruce B

WBF Founding Member, Pro Audio Production Member
Apr 25, 2010
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I like my JPS Labs Aluminata PC's. I think the shielding is Kapton. The shielding is so great, you can take a voltage detector and trace the cable from component to the wall and not detect anything.
 

mep

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
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17
0
My system is very quiet without a power cord.

The biggest benefits I have seen are from a larger gauge, though anything larger than the 12 or 14 guage in your wall is wasted, and having the additional ground wire if the original cord had no separate ground. I suspect some of the improvements heard may be from the wiping action when unplugging and plugging in a new cord (clearing oxidation from the plug and receptacle).

Generally speaking I do not see how a few feet of power cable into hundreds of feet in-wall and miles of external cable matters. One caveat: there could be some sort of filtering effect if the cable is shielded and thus acts as a transmission line filter for certain RFI issues. Or, of course, if the cable has filtering built in that provides noise suppression from on-line noise. And assuming the component itself has inadequate input RFI filtering, certainly a possibility. I have heard and measured benefits from RFI filtering and am wondering now if that is the real benefit of some of these power cables.

Don-The main reason I wrote the positive statement that I do believe in power cords is the fact that with the new power cord, the racket my huge power transformer use to make is gone. Krell recommends having a dedicated 20A outlet for the KSA-250 and I do. I was feeding the Krell with a wimpy, er, I mean an excellent up to the task 12-14 gauge power cord. When I installed the new 7 gauge power cord-boom, the noise is gone. Now is that because the new power cord is very well shielded or is it because it can draw much more current from the wall due to it being 7 gauge or is it a combination of both? I really don't think the transformer mechanical noise is going to go away due to "wiper action" of removing and installing a new power cord.
 

microstrip

VIP/Donor
May 30, 2010
20,807
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2,790
Portugal
Hi

My take on Power. Clean it before it hits your system. A power cord is not the best way. I would surmise the following. Once Power Quality is addressed difference between power cords (if any) vanishes. This is my experience. I am currently running my headphones based rig on an a double conversion APC and PCs make no difference in my opinion, in my system. This results mirrors those I had with my former system with the double conversion Telco Grade UPS.

It takes us audiophiles a long to digest certain concepts however sound (pun intended) they may be. There exist several interesting and relatively inexpensive power quality solutions. For the most part audiophiles ignore them.

At the end if painting the room or changing any accessories enhance the pleasure one derives from his/her system .. it's all good

Can you tell us what is the exact model of double conversion APC you are using? I have several at work and may be one is similar to yours and I can try it. My experience is different from yours - I have used PS Audio power regenerators and an ExactPower active corrector - both generate technically perfect mains and power cables still made a large difference.
 

audioguy

WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
2,794
73
1,635
Near Atlanta, GA but not too near!
What you want to do is find an accurately recorded, bass heavy album. A good one to use would be something like Donald Fagan's "Morph the Cat" or perhaps Tool's "Undertow". Something along the likes of those and not some badly recorded, computer generated bass or bass that is so compressed that you can't even realize what instrument is making the noise to begin with. Now that you have found the reference recording, use a physical disc and a CDP for this test and do not rely on any music server. Now, take your mains and disable them completely to where they are making absolutely no noise whatsoever.

With the sub and only the sub running, play the CD until you are certain that you have achieved a loud enough volume to see the woofer moving and feel the bass output strong enough to appreciate but not so loud that you fear for blowing the sub itself. Sit back and listen to the sub and only the sub at that level for about a minute or two with the stock power cord. Get used to the impact, how it loads the room and the overall sound at your listening position.

Now, without touching anything other than stop on the CDP.....power everything else down and swap out just the PC on the sub with a worthy* upgraded one [*not one from the Rat Shack, in other words]. Turn everything back on making sure that nothing else is moved or altered in any way whatsoever and proceed to play the same selection. Go back to your listening position and note any differences that you observe.

I am in the Frantz camp on this issue. That said, I can't afford this experiment to work in my system as I have sold around 15 or 20 very expensive power cords over the last 18 month (to pay for other gear) as I NEVER heard any difference, even sighted. I tried blind and of course I failed that as well.

So I will pass on this experiment :confused:
 

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