To clamp or not to clamp
- Thread starter Snoop65
- Start date
I stripped the screw thread on my SME 30 standard screw down clamp.
I was always rather uncomfortable with the forces involved in forcibly screwing the record down like that, with a washer holding the record up at the center and the clamp forcibly bending the record into contact with the platter. It did cause stress fractures around a few records
spindle holes.
Working with materials in biology, even seemingly hard and resistant materials, hard force systems tend to succumb to stress failure routinely.
I am glad it was the puck and not the spindle that failed. I can't argue with the theory of hard clamping, I just think over time hard clamping generates too much physical stress on the spindle, clamp thread and record.
Anyway, it forced me to try an alternative, and I now use the puck as a passive weight system with a mat and the puck sitting on the spindle with a piece of felt under it. The milled cork surface is handled with a 1.5mm leather mat.
I like it better, more mellow and tone-ful but without loss of detail or sound staging.
The only generalizations I can make are that there are no generalizations, one must just fool around with at particular analog system until one is tired of fooling and wants to go back to listening.
I look at the stereo system as a musical instrument that plays other groups of instruments. In analog, the sky is the limit on the tuning paradigm, especially vibration detectors like turntables.
Whether you can get a gorgeous material such as teak to convey its essence to the overall sonic musical presentation is a speculation that is fun for driving objectivists crazy.
Materials do two basic things, they dampen sound by turning the energy into heat and they will turn particular frequencies into different frequency spectra at different energy levels. Every material will have its own damping/reassignment characteristic, so particulars will be experiment based.
The most straight forward thing is just to tap the surface of the record and listen to its ping, you can get a pretty good idea with a little practice as to its frequency spectrum and whether it is over or under damped. This is free, simple and requires a little bit of skill acquisition, so it seems to be dismissed by most audiophiles who would rather pay for a guru solution.
I was always rather uncomfortable with the forces involved in forcibly screwing the record down like that, with a washer holding the record up at the center and the clamp forcibly bending the record into contact with the platter. It did cause stress fractures around a few records
spindle holes.
Working with materials in biology, even seemingly hard and resistant materials, hard force systems tend to succumb to stress failure routinely.
I am glad it was the puck and not the spindle that failed. I can't argue with the theory of hard clamping, I just think over time hard clamping generates too much physical stress on the spindle, clamp thread and record.
Anyway, it forced me to try an alternative, and I now use the puck as a passive weight system with a mat and the puck sitting on the spindle with a piece of felt under it. The milled cork surface is handled with a 1.5mm leather mat.
I like it better, more mellow and tone-ful but without loss of detail or sound staging.
The only generalizations I can make are that there are no generalizations, one must just fool around with at particular analog system until one is tired of fooling and wants to go back to listening.
I look at the stereo system as a musical instrument that plays other groups of instruments. In analog, the sky is the limit on the tuning paradigm, especially vibration detectors like turntables.
Whether you can get a gorgeous material such as teak to convey its essence to the overall sonic musical presentation is a speculation that is fun for driving objectivists crazy.
Materials do two basic things, they dampen sound by turning the energy into heat and they will turn particular frequencies into different frequency spectra at different energy levels. Every material will have its own damping/reassignment characteristic, so particulars will be experiment based.
The most straight forward thing is just to tap the surface of the record and listen to its ping, you can get a pretty good idea with a little practice as to its frequency spectrum and whether it is over or under damped. This is free, simple and requires a little bit of skill acquisition, so it seems to be dismissed by most audiophiles who would rather pay for a guru solution.
Wow, I had a SME 20/2 with the same spindle and clamp. Surprised on the clamp failing...those SME tables are BUILT very well....
Agreed, but once you clamp the LP direct to turntable, no material or damping can stop the transmission of a noisy bearing/motor/environment from reaching the stylus.
tb1
TBone, How would you describe the case of the SME system (screw-down clamp to vinyl to isodamp bonded to the platter)? Is the LP clamped directly to the turntable or is this more analogous to a mat system? It seems to me that in the SME case, the LP is clamped directly to the turntable, but there is the benefit of a soft mat like material as an interface between the LP and the platter. It does not seem like internally generated vibrations from the bearing or motor make their way up to the stylus. I don't know if that is because this system is effective at dampening vibrations or if the motor and bearing are just unusually quiet.
Peter, my experience with SME turntables is limited, but from the outside looking in, I think the design is more analogous to a coupled LP/Mat/Platter system, but one that has been "voiced" to attain a desired sound. In this case, I don't think inclusion of the isodamp coating on the platter works like a traditional soft mat in that it was never designed to decouple. I also suspect their bearing is a high quality affair that's dead quiet, and that the motor (which is further isolation via the suspension) has been engineered to rotate with as little noise transmission as possible (all motors make noise).
The reason I "suspect" ... is because every time I've heard an SME turntable, it's noise floor characteristics where always impressive.
tb1
I decided to try out a J.A. MICHELL record clamp. It came with a small felt ring that goes under the record. I was really surprised about how well it worked. It lowered the noise floor, improved clarity and sharped the images. I am really pleased with it. The strange thing though was on a 3 or 4 records I prefered not to use it. These were records that were not the best recordings so maybe the benefited from the extra noise , i don't know but I love this clamp.
well i prefer clamps to weights and low mass seems to me to be the best way to go. i have clamps of all different weights: sota reflex (heavy), planax (nearly weightless), orsonic (relatively light but metal reflex), and a heavy maplenoll.
my last two TTs have had hard acrylic mats which seem to definitely favor a reflex type clamp. the vpi had the usual integrated clamp (lightweight) and threaded spindle. my current sota sapphire needs something to grasp the spindle.
its logical to me that a clamp should be part of the system for numerous reasons: consistent stability of the LP, prevention of slippage of the record (especially during dust removal), and a level of warp reduction. oh yes, i would love to have a periphery ring but that isn't my budget at present.
never once have i thought the music was lifeless, especially with the ARC sp3a1 in the system.
http://cgi.audioasylum.com/systems/588.html
my last two TTs have had hard acrylic mats which seem to definitely favor a reflex type clamp. the vpi had the usual integrated clamp (lightweight) and threaded spindle. my current sota sapphire needs something to grasp the spindle.
its logical to me that a clamp should be part of the system for numerous reasons: consistent stability of the LP, prevention of slippage of the record (especially during dust removal), and a level of warp reduction. oh yes, i would love to have a periphery ring but that isn't my budget at present.
never once have i thought the music was lifeless, especially with the ARC sp3a1 in the system.
http://cgi.audioasylum.com/systems/588.html
+1 - i use vacuum hold with the Luxman turntable, it boths flattens slightly wrapped recirds as well as gets that extra content (particulary on higher notes) compared with a clamp I have from Millennium. A clamp might bring some good things at the expense of others regarding sonic differences.
Just to make matters worse. I find with my SME that the sound varies depending on how tightly you screw the clamp (my preference is for light clamping on my particular deck.) There are no 'definite' answers. All is confusion. Still, as long as we know what we like.....
On my SME, I tighten the clamp just enough to flatten the outer edge of the LP, but no more. I look from the side to see if there is any gap between platter and LP and I tighten until any gap is gone. It definitely sounds better than with no clamp.
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