$8,400 Power Cord, $8,995 Power Distributor, I'm a flat earther with this stuff, BUT

Alrainbow · Feb 24, 2014

Oh,ok I thought this was a power center box. Sorry. They look a little like the JDS cords.
Al

Alrainbow · Feb 24, 2014

So that does look really nice for sure. And I guess the cords you showed connect to the box. Very well detailed product.
And it looks like there is possible ferret coils on each side of the power cord. Truly detailed product.
Al

Phelonious Ponk · Feb 24, 2014

Alrainbow said:
Hello. I am a skeptic too. But as electrical PE I now a little. Some of the power cords do help help eliminate noise on the power coming out of the wall. But I am a believer of power conditioning. I use ps audio regenerators and I get results I can hear and see.
Al

What filters are in those power cords? How do they eliminate noise? I think it's a pretty simple answer, if we're talking about cable and plugs; they don't. A well-sheilded cable may prevent the introduction of noise, but it has no capacity to reduce it. And I don't have to hear this any more than I have to get on the space shuttle to know the earth isn't flat. Born a few years later, PT Barnum would have been a high-end tweak manufacturer.

Tim

Jazzhead · Feb 24, 2014

microstrip said:
They are the famous Kraken costing $8400 - no need to PM. I hope we do not get insulted just because we are debating them.

http://www.monoandstereo.com/2014/02/stage-iii-new-kraken-power-cord.html

http://www.stage3concepts.com/PRODUCTS_Kraken_page.htm

and I hope , I am not fed to the lions for possessing them

Alrainbow · Feb 24, 2014

No you are enjoying the wealth of rewards of your purchase .
Al

MylesBAstor · Feb 24, 2014

Phelonious Ponk said:
What filters are in those power cords? How do they eliminate noise? I think it's a pretty simple answer, if we're talking about cable and plugs; they don't. A well-sheilded cable may prevent the introduction of noise, but it has no capacity to reduce it. And I don't have to hear this any more than I have to get on the space shuttle to know the earth isn't flat. Born a few years later, PT Barnum would have been a high-end tweak manufacturer.

Tim

So Caelin Gabriel's a fraud too Tim?

And what type of noise are we talking about Tim? Common mode? Transverse mode?

http://www.controlledpwr.com/whitepapers/ipnoisa1.pdf

[video]http://www.furmansound.com/video.php?id=7[/video]

http://ww2.mitcables.com/pdf/powerline_noise.pdf

Phelonious Ponk · Feb 24, 2014

treitz3 said:
It does, however, make sense IMO that one should not even be commenting about an audio products sound (or lack thereof) when said person has never heard it to begin with. I'm not trying to pester you, just understand why you (and perhaps others) would comment in such a strong way (calling something snake oil) on something they may not have even heard.

You're right. I haven't heard it. I wouldn't cross the street to hear an $8400 power cord. I wouldn't lend it that much credibility. How can I say that? Because it is a power cord. If it has no filters built into it, it cannot remove noise. If it has no active components in it, it cannot increase the current or change the bandwidth. It can, if it is a perfect power cord, deliver to the component exactly what it receives from the outlet. And of course it's not perfect, so it's only effect can be negative.

If I told you that I could run hot air through the entire ductwork system of your house, from the furnace to the room furthest away and by encasing the last 2 feet of ductwork in marble and plating the inside of the duct in platinum, it would raise the temperature of the air -- no heating elements, no active elements at all, no power source, no flame -- just more expensive materials in the last two feet would actually raise the temperature, would you believe me? Would you even bother to take the temperature of the air on either side of that last 2 feet of duct?

Tim

treitz3 · Feb 24, 2014

Phelonious Ponk said:
You're right. I haven't heard it.

That's all that needs to be said. The rest could be considered hot air.

Tom

Phelonious Ponk · Feb 25, 2014

treitz3 said:
That's all that needs to be said. The rest could be considered hot air.

Tom

Correct. Hotter for passing through the last 2 feet of marble duct work. Nothing to actually raise the temperature required, just marble...the edge is beveled...inside? individual runs for each outlet to reduce noise, no noise fliters required...magic!

So Caelin Gabriel's a fraud too Tim?

Don't know him. Myles you do understand that those three links you provided me are all abou noise filtering? Right? I skimmed. Are they claiming that if it is elegant, heavy and expensive enough, wire and plugs alone -- power cables -- are capable of filtering noise? If not, we're not talking about the same thing. If so, yes, it's BS.

Tim

esldude · Feb 25, 2014

treitz3 said:
Hello, Tim. I find it interesting to see you comment on something that I suspect you haven't ever heard. That being a $200.00 PC or an $8K PC. Now, if I am correct in this assumption then you are claiming snake oil in a hobby in which all of the pleasure derives from listening on a product(s) that you have never heard. If I am incorrect in this assumption, please forgive me.

It does, however, make sense IMO that one should not even be commenting about an audio products sound (or lack thereof) when said person has never heard it to begin with. I'm not trying to pester you, just understand why you (and perhaps others) would comment in such a strong way (calling something snake oil) on something they may not have even heard.

Tom

I would say because some things shouldn't be commented upon if you have heard them. As in heard them differently than other competent designs. It is always the old thing about do your ears hear things that aren't really there.

ddk · Feb 25, 2014

Peter Breuninger said:
How the heck can a super power strip and power cord make my soundstage 20% wider. Why does my system have way more inner detail... it's a power strip for gods sake. The HB Cable Design Marble and the Stage III cable Kraken power cord have shaken my belief system. The system sounds as if I threw the 5.1 switch. And get this, I've only hooked the preamp to them. Is $20,000 single malt this good? Am I nuts?

I was (very) hesitant to review these products and I thought before I pass them to a team member for formal review I'd give them a try.

I shot the video of the HB in October and I thought, while it's a cool product for those who believe in this stuff... and I'm sure it will make a difference (like sideways), I never imagined it would elevate the system's speed and bass, and warmth, there's just more there. How can this be?

Peter, do you mind telling what you had in place before trying the Kraken? Good to know what you're comparing them to since so many of the high end cords have their own sonic signature.

david

Don Hills · Feb 25, 2014

Archimago recently tested a set of Tesla cables. Only 1/4 the price of the ones under discussion here... such a bargain.

http://archimago.blogspot.co.nz/2014/02/measurements-power-cable-redux.html

Check out the "Active Shielding", powered by generic wall warts... no doubt injecting their own power supply hash into the power cables.

MylesBAstor · Feb 25, 2014

Phelonious Ponk said:
Correct. Hotter for passing through the last 2 feet of marble duct work. Nothing to actually raise the temperature required, just marble...the edge is beveled...inside? individual runs for each outlet to reduce noise, no noise fliters required...magic!

Don't know him. Myles you do understand that those three links you provided me are all abou noise filtering? Right? I skimmed. Are they claiming that if it is elegant, heavy and expensive enough, wire and plugs alone -- power cables -- are capable of filtering noise? If not, we're not talking about the same thing. If so, yes, it's BS.

Tim

Caelin Gabriel = Shunyata. You must have read his many, many contributions to WBF. If not Steve, Marty, and many others talking about his products. So basically to sum it up, you don't need to read his material nor look at measurements he's provided to draw a conclusion? Nice.

And yes, just like the PS is supposed to do in a perfect world. Unfortunately we don't live in heaven but an electromagnetic hell.

BTW, you still haven't told us what type of noise you're referring to.

Phelonious Ponk · Feb 25, 2014

MylesBAstor said:
Caelin Gabriel = Shunyata. You must have read his many, many contributions to WBF. If not Steve, Marty, and many others talking about his products. So basically to sum it up, you don't need to read his material nor look at measurements he's provided to draw a conclusion?

I rarely open cable threads. I should have stuck with that. You tell me...

The ?TRON ANACONDA is our reference power cord and represents the current state of the art in power cord design. The ?TRON ANACONDA power cords are currently being used in the world's most respected recording studios and in the finest audiophile systems.

Installing a single ?TRON ANACONDA on a key component such as an amplifier, HYDRA or critical source component will deliver a dramatic, component level sonic improvement to the system.

This is a direct result of our DTCD research into the effects of instantaneous current delivery.

That's the entire copy support on their website for their TOTL cable. At least they didn't make any specific performance claims. Instead, they said almost nothing. To be fair, we probably ought to look at this research in the Technical section...

...impressive. They are measuring power cables with a device of their own invention and reporting results not correlated to audio performance (other than in the very non-specific bit of chest-beating above in bold). So, according to their own proprietary measurements, their cable moves current better than the ROMEX in the wall. They have given us no reason to believe that will have any impact on component performance, and no metrics to compare their proprietary measurements to, but we believe...

I was skimming again. Did I miss anything important? If I did, as my penance, I offer my free marketing advice to Shunyata -- fire your agency. Their copywriter has buried your paradigm-shifting breakthrough beneath two or three clicks of bovine excrement.

Tim

Alrainbow · Feb 25, 2014

Not looking to argue. , but do you use any type of power conditioning ?

Al

Phelonious Ponk · Feb 25, 2014

Alrainbow said:
Not looking to argue. , but do you use any type of power conditioning ?

Al

We're not talking about power conditioning, we're talking about AC cables.

Tim

microstrip · Feb 25, 2014

Phelonious Ponk said:
I rarely open cable threads. I should have stuck with that. (...)

Tim

Tim,

Wise words. We have had very interesting and informing threads on power cables in WBF, with the direct contribution of manufacturers we respect such as Gary Koh, Caelin Gabriel and others, that you ignored in due time. Now you openly injure and despise them, their products and the owners. Do you want to tell us what is the purpose of your posts?

Phelonious Ponk · Feb 25, 2014

microstrip said:
Tim,

Wise words. We have had very interesting and informing threads on power cables in WBF, with the direct contribution of manufacturers we respect such as Gary Koh, Caelin Gabriel and others, that you ignored in due time. Now you openly injure and despise them, their products and the owners. Do you want to tell us what is the purpose of your posts?

Honestly, micro, my eye was drawn to the numbers in the thread title as to a bloody wreck on the side of the road. I'll go now. Thanks for the reminder

Tim

ack · Feb 25, 2014

Don Hills said:
Archimago recently tested a set of Tesla cables. Only 1/4 the price of the ones under discussion here... such a bargain.

http://archimago.blogspot.co.nz/2014/02/measurements-power-cable-redux.html

Check out the "Active Shielding", powered by generic wall warts... no doubt injecting their own power supply hash into the power cables.

Wait a minute... that article shows a cheap chinese wall-wart whose Synergistic sticker fell off, exposing the real origin. Is this downright "fraud"?

HFT anyone?

FrantzM · Feb 25, 2014

microstrip said:
Tim,

Wise words. We have had very interesting and informing threads on power cables in WBF, with the direct contribution of manufacturers we respect such as Gary Koh, Caelin Gabriel and others, that you ignored in due time. Now you openly injure and despise them, their products and the owners. Do you want to tell us what is the purpose of your posts?

So now expressing doubts about a product is an injure to their manufacturers or designers? No criticism allowed.

Do we realize that endeavors much more precise than high end audio do not use any those ultra expensive cords...

Now something that should carry a lowly 60 Hz needs to have "high bandwidth" and that, said with all the air of a fact... Man! The thing we see in high end audio...

$8,400 Power Cord, $8,995 Power Distributor, I'm a flat earther with this stuff, BUT

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