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Thread: DSD comparison to PCM.

  1. #761
    AuI ConverteR 48x44 (ISO, DFF, DSF, WAV, FLAC, AIFF,...) developer http://samplerateconverter.com

  2. #762
    Addicted to Best! Lee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarinJim View Post
    Do not agree. I am with Anthony Cordesman on this issue. Read his article on the Burmester MC151 in The Absolute Sound.
    FWW, my opinion is based on mic feeds that have been split to PCM and DSD converters and we compared the resulting recording to a live event of acoustic instruments. We have done this several times with chamber music and acoustic guitar. We also have tried over several top DACs.
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  3. #763
    VIP/Donor [VIP/Donor] microstrip's Avatar
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    Just looked at the recording shown today in Stereophile (Fischer's New Mahler Symphony 3) https://channelclassics.nativedsd.co...no-3-in-dminor

    Considering that the technical details shown in the booklet are just "dsd Super Audio/Grimm Audio Pyramix Editing/Merging Technologies" I would suppose that it was recorded in DSD and mixed/mastered in DXD, probably all other stereo formats coming from the DXD master. However, looking at the prices, I see DSD128 is more expensive than DXD. Usually sellers have an higher price for DXD, as it is the higher quality. Any special reason for this different price scheme?
    DCS Vivaldi 2.0 stack, Soundlab A1 Px's while waiting for the XLF successor, EMT927, SME3012R, ARC Phono 3, Lamm ML1.2 Ref, Lamm L2ref, Stealth Dream speaker , Crystal Dreamline ICs, TA XL digital, TA XL gen V power cables, CenterStage footers and Nordost Qkore8's!

  4. #764
    Quote Originally Posted by microstrip View Post
    Just looked at the recording shown today in Stereophile (Fischer's New Mahler Symphony 3) https://channelclassics.nativedsd.co...no-3-in-dminor

    Considering that the technical details shown in the booklet are just "dsd Super Audio/Grimm Audio Pyramix Editing/Merging Technologies" I would suppose that it was recorded in DSD and mixed/mastered in DXD, probably all other stereo formats coming from the DXD master. However, looking at the prices, I see DSD128 is more expensive than DXD. Usually sellers have an higher price for DXD, as it is the higher quality. Any special reason for this different price scheme?
    Have a look at the nativedsd website for the technical (recording) aspects of this recording. Jared explains on this site how this original dsd 64 recording was reworked in dxd and from there to dsd 128 and dsd 256. Have not bought this recording (yet) so do not know how the original dsd 64 recording compares to the other (higher) format files.

    The Challenge Classics recordings made by Bert van der Wolf are original dxd recording but are also made available in various dsd formats. His dsd 256 files are (also) more expensive than his dxd files.

  5. #765
    I haven't read the whole thread, but it seems to me it comes down to the fact that every converter, DSD or PCM, will exhibit some signature to the sound, good or bad, desirable or undesirable, likeable or unlikeable.

    When DSD first came out there were problems with it, i.e. artificially 'softened' edges and dynamics (a type of distortion), but these problems were (to my ears at least) fully overcome by the Grimm AD1, which managed to achieve amazingly low distortion and great sound with their design. But there is still the problem with it only operating at 64x and the inherent HF noise above 50khz.

    The recordings done in DXD (352.8khz/24bit PCM) by 2L and downconverted to DSD do not sound as good to me as ones made with the Grimm AD1. It's because the distortion isn't kept as low and is above audible threshold and I hear some 'softening' and 'rounding' of the edges, i.e. distortion. This seems to be a problem with higher sampling rates, both for PCM and DSD. That is, the faster the sampling, the more distortion and/or the harder it is to keep audible distortion at bay.

    I know Jared Sacks has experimented with and tried other DSD converters that operate at 128x and 256x, but he says the Grimm still sounds the best (and I think he still goes out of his way to still use it most of the time). Eelco Grimm says he/they could make a DSD converter that does 128x DSD with equally low distortion as 64x on the AD1, but not one at 256x.

    Maybe I'm biased since I'm partial to the Grimm and its ultra low distortion, but I would think a design of theirs operating at 128x would trounce everything else by a wide margin. After all, even 14 years after it's come out, the AD1 still arguably sounds the best. If only they would make an AD2 at 128x. Maybe someday they will.

  6. #766
    [WBF Founding Member]
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    Been there.... done that. Beat this dead horse enough. Had a Grimm for over a year and have done many DSD shoot-outs.

    DSD Battle Royale!

    To this day, I'm still using the Merging Horus with new A-D cards.
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  7. #767
    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce B View Post
    Been there.... done that. Beat this dead horse enough. Had a Grimm for over a year and have done many DSD shoot-outs.

    DSD Battle Royale!

    To this day, I'm still using the Merging Horus with new A-D cards.
    What sampling rate are you using?

  8. #768
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    All PCM and DSD sampling rates up to 256fs

  9. #769
    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce B View Post
    All PCM and DSD sampling rates up to 256fs
    All sound better than the Grimm to you?

  10. #770
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    Quote Originally Posted by RWetmore View Post
    All sound better than the Grimm to you?
    Sure do...... Do tape archival all the time, plus have mastering projects in here.
    Bruce A. Brown
    Puget Sound Studios
    Stereomojo reviewer
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