'plays backwards' :)

Mike Lavigne · Feb 6, 2013

below is a link to an Lp that is mastered to be played backwards. as i read the explanation, it supposedly is done that way for Ravel's Bolero since the dynamics build and build thru the piece and the claim is that the outer grooves will sound better than the inner grooves....and so for this piece it's ideal to master it this way.

i really have no comment but thought it worthy of discussion.

OTOH (

) my opinion is that with the very best 12" arms and linear trackers this is a waste of time.

http://store.acousticsounds.com/d/8...a-Ravel_Bolero_La_Valse-180_Gram_Vinyl_Record

garylkoh · Feb 6, 2013

The first LPs to be played backwards was back in 1961 when Riverside Records created the Fortissimo label. They were pressed on red clear vinyl (Polymax) and played backwards (from the inside-out). So, "nobody has ever seen a long-playing record that plays backwards" is not right.

Kal Rubinson · Feb 6, 2013

garylkoh said:
The first LPs to be played backwards was back in 1961 when Riverside Records created the Fortissimo label. They were pressed on red clear vinyl (Polymax) and played backwards (from the inside-out). So, "nobody has ever seen a long-playing record that plays backwards" is not right.

Right! I still have a few of them.

Peter Breuninger · Feb 6, 2013

First I heard of this. So Kal... do they sound better? Gary, do you have any of these?

kach22i · Feb 6, 2013

Does it help to increase the anti-skating level a little on these LP's?

garylkoh · Feb 6, 2013

Peter Breuninger said:
First I heard of this. So Kal... do they sound better? Gary, do you have any of these?

Yes - I still have a few. I gave most of them away as "novelty items" - all the Banjo Polkas. There were only a couple with music that I'd listen to. Sound may be "nice" and well-recorded but none of the ones I had were good performances or enjoyable music.

garylkoh · Feb 6, 2013

kach22i said:
Does it help to increase the ant-skating level a little on these LP's?

Playing backwards is supposed to allow the arm to follow the centrifugal forces more easily, and hence anti-skate can be reduced. However, the fact that the delta in speed between the inner groove-wall and the outer groove-wall creates a twisting motion on the stylus, any effect on the anti-skate level is marginal. I tried it both ways - increasing and decreasing the anti-skate, and I recall that it needed to be reduced a little.

MylesBAstor · Feb 6, 2013

Do you need to sprint to the turntable when the record is over?

Mike Lavigne · Feb 6, 2013

garylkoh said:
The first LPs to be played backwards was back in 1961 when Riverside Records created the Fortissimo label. They were pressed on red clear vinyl (Polymax) and played backwards (from the inside-out). So, "nobody has ever seen a long-playing record that plays backwards" is not right.

Gary,

i know this is not the only or first Lp done like this and did not say it was or infer that. it simply looked like an interesting thing to point out.

Mike

garylkoh · Feb 6, 2013

Mike Lavigne said:
Gary,

i know this is not the only or first Lp done like this and did not say it was or infer that. it simply looked like an interesting thing to point out.

Mike

I know, Mike. I was referring to what Acoustic Sounds had posted on the link. It is interesting that they are doing it again.... especially for classical music where the crescendo is at the end of the side and where the grooves are most congested.

garylkoh · Feb 6, 2013

MylesBAstor said:
Do you need to sprint to the turntable when the record is over?

Nope - it's a locked groove, like the inner groove on an ordinary LP.

On the Fortissimo LPs, they even had a 400Hz tone on the inside for you to use to calibrate your t/t.

MylesBAstor · Feb 6, 2013

garylkoh said:
Nope - it's a locked groove, like the inner groove on an ordinary LP.

On the Fortissimo LPs, they even had a 400Hz tone on the inside for you to use to calibrate your t/t.

Whew

JackD201 · Feb 7, 2013

The platter is still moving clockwise but you start in the inside? How do they do that?

Mike Lavigne · Feb 7, 2013

JackD201 said:
The platter is still moving clockwise but you start in the inside? How do they do that?

no idea about what changes they had to make to the cutter head and that part.

the stylus has no idea where it's going; it only follows the groove. so if you drop the stylus onto the inner grooves (normally run-out area) and the groove winds outward with the clockwise platter rotation the stylus will follow.

conversely; if you were to cue a normal Lp with the stylus on the inner 'run-off' area on the 'other' side of the spindle, it would play in reverse. the only problem with trying that is that any bumps would be met without the suspension working properly and leaning the wrong way and you could shear off the styus or cantilever quite easily. never tried it so hard to know about what would actually happen. also; many arms are not free to rotate to the other side of the spindle for various reasons of the way they are built so you might need to remount your arm to be able to do it.

it's the combination of the (1) rotation of the platter, (2) the direction that it's cut, and (3) which side of the spindle you drop the stylus.....all three together.

Peter Breuninger · Feb 7, 2013

MylesBAstor said:
Do you need to sprint to the turntable when the record is over?

Hahahahah!

Kal Rubinson · Feb 7, 2013

MylesBAstor said:
Do you need to sprint to the turntable when the record is over?

Not if you place the arm-rest appropriately.

Kal Rubinson · Feb 7, 2013

garylkoh said:
Yes - I still have a few. I gave most of them away as "novelty items" - all the Banjo Polkas. There were only a couple with music that I'd listen to. Sound may be "nice" and well-recorded but none of the ones I had were good performances or enjoyable music.

Exactly what I was going to say.

garylkoh · Feb 7, 2013

They also recorded sounds of "everyday life" like jets, trains, etc.

Mike,
did you buy the "reverse Bolero"? If they went through all the trouble to make it play backwards, I'm wondering if is going to be good music.

paskinn · Feb 16, 2013

I once had Pink Triangle turntable which rotated backwards.Fortunately not while the record was playing.The only devices which rotate backward these days are some rcms, so you can scrub thoroughly.

jfrech · Feb 17, 2013

So it's not spinning backwards? It's really playing inside out?

'plays backwards' :)

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