left brain vs right brain listeners

jkeny

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I know there are some threads already on this forum that skirt around this such as "It's all preference" but ultimately have no conclusions to offer. I don't imagine this thread will reach final conclusions either but would like it to be considered research in how people honestly listen rather than a way of fighting with one another or scoring points. We could all learn something about our hobby if we are honest, I hope?

With that said, I have come to a tentative conclusion that I'd like to investigate some. The conclusion being that we are divided into two groups in our listening methods. The right brain Vs left brain is NOT to be taken literally but is an indication of what I mean.

In our normal day to day life we listen casually, often filling in the gaps we miss or completing the pattern of what we hear. It's an evolutionary thing, we can deal with the audible part of the world with half-attention & only when we hear something unnatural or out of the ordinary does our hearing attention snap into focus & we begin working out the details of what we are hearing - is it threat or not? Is it the movement of something we are hunting, etc. This is one way of listening & I reckon some people always listen to their music replay systems in this way - hearing the tune, filling in their expectations, rather than hearing the actual performance of the piece, the subtle nuances that need attention & focus to be sensed.

I have an inkling that some have developed a way of turning on this mode of listening & can listen to the same song on the same CD/LP/whatever that they have heard 100 times before & still listen to it's performance even though they know the performance intimately. I don't want to get too esoteric but I believe this is a form of meditation, but I can't remember what it's called - it's an attentiveness to the mundane! Hope I haven't lost anyone here :) Edit: Mindfullness I believe it's called which is what I'm liking it to -

It was brought to my attention that what I'm describing is also "seen" in how we see. When learning to draw, it's important to decompose what you are seeing & draw the lines at the angles that the eye sees, the light & dark, etc. In other words to be able to de-construct the scene that you are looking at. Some people never learn this way of seeing as it's not our normal way & so some never become people that can draw with any facility. They draw what they "think" they see rather than what they "actually" see.

I'm interested in how this might explain the differences between us as two groups & what might be at the root of this difference. I'm interested in the truthful recounting of various experiences & not trying to defend a particular mindset or viewpoint
 
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JackD201

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I dabble in photography. I love it because when I have a camera in hand it switches something in my brain that forces me to see my surroundings in a different way. I could be using my phone camera, a point and shoot or actually have a bag of lenses and filters. All these have limitations and I have to adapt to them in order to get the shot I'm envisioning at a particular moment. Now how about the "shot"? Sometimes I want to be creative making something mundane surrealistic. Sometimes photo quality isn't even a priority because all that is important is capturing that moment. You may not be able to capture the entirety of a great vista but you might be able to capture enough of it to elicit some of the feeling of being there. Isn't it looking more and more similar to recorded music? Sure it is because it really is. In both cases we try to capture the real thing in media that is incapable of capturing the event in its entirety. It's now up to the individual to decide what to capture and how to make these representative of the whole.

In my mind, knowing the technology behind our tools is important not so much to know how it works (which is always nice) but functionally, more to know what the limits of the technology are. I think that this enhances both efficiency and creativity,

Whether this make me left or right brained, I have absolutely no idea.
 

MylesBAstor

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Read Daniel Levitan's book "This Is Your Brain on Music." No need to speculate. The left/right brain hypothesis is a myth. Oh BTW Levitan is is neuroscientist, musician and record producer.
 

jkeny

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Read Daniel Levitan's book "This Is Your Brain on Music." No need to speculate. The left/right brain hypothesis is a myth. Oh BTW Levitan is is neuroscientist, musician and record producer.

Yes, I was trying to use L&R brain as shorthand to explain what I meant & not to be taken literally.

I haven't read that book can you easily summarise his conclusions with relation to this?
 

jkeny

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Yes, Jack, although I don't dabble in photography, I do in art & don't create music. When looking at art I have two modes that I flip between - overview emotional impact of the work & a more detailed look at the techniques employed. Both are different views & give different perspectives & appreciation of the work. I find this similar to listening to music, normal emotional connection & appreciation - the main listening method & a more detailed focussed listening to maybe certain elements of the replay, sibilance, note tails, harmonic depth, etc.

So when fully evaluating a piece of equipment I look for the emotional connection of the playback - do I find myself engaged with the piece? Then I would try to de-construct what I'm hearing but I would normally need familiar music to do this. I have found for instance that what can initially appear as detail & interesting can often be revealed as HF distortion when focussed upon or compared to playback using other devices.

I'm wondering if others have the same or similar approaches or techniques to evaluating replay devices?
 
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MylesBAstor

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Yes, I was trying to use L&R brain as shorthand to explain what I meant & not to be taken literally.

I haven't read that book can you easily summarise his conclusions with relation to this?

It's hard to summarize the whole book because it deals with why is music so important to us--but in a nutshell, both sides of the brain work in processing music eg. data obtained from MRI, PET, etc.
 

JackD201

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Yes, Jack, although I don't dabble in photography, I do in art & don't create music. When looking at art I have two modes that I flip between - overview emotional impact of the work & a more detailed look at the techniques employed. Both are different views & give different perspectives & appreciation of the work. I find this similar to listening to music, normal emotional connection & appreciation - the main listening method & a more detailed focussed listening to maybe certain elements of the replay, sibilance, note tails, harmonic depth, etc.

So when fully evaluating a piece of equipment I look for the emotional connection of the playback - do I find myself engaged with the piece? Then I would try to de-construct what I'm hearing but I would normally need familiar music to do this. I have found for instance that what can initially appear as detail & interesting can often be revealed as HF distortion when focussed upon or compared to playback using other devices.

I'm wondering if others have the same or similar approaches or techniques to evaluating replay devices?

I think everybody with an interest in technical aspects does. The level at which it is done I suppose varies with the degree in technical proficiency and the focus follows the area of specific interests/core competence.

@Myles - I'm so intrigued by the studies being done on hearing using brain scans and monitoring, you know, the kind some guys actually dismiss!
 

jkeny

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I think everybody with an interest in technical aspects does. The level at which it is done I suppose varies with the degree in technical proficiency and the focus follows the area of specific interests/core competence.
Yes, I believe this is true but also that there is a wider body of people who are not interested in the technical side as such but also have developed this way of listening - I know some such people so I'm wondering if it is a more generally applicable way of listening developed by those who listen for differences when evaluating a new piece of playback equipment in their system?
 
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JackD201

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I think the ability to zoom in and zoom out is innate. The trained listener can put a name to what's going wrong but the untrained listener can still tell if something is wrong even if he can't identify it. The REALLY trained listener can postulate with some accuracy what might be causing it. As you said in your first post in not so many words, people are good at spotting things that aren't right. Toole says the same.

I've been watching the TV series Fringe. In this show some a symbol quickly faded in and out before or after some scenes. One such symbol is a hand with a Phi in the palm. I always found this particular symbol weird but never really thought about it. Four episodes in I realized the hand had six fingers. One could say that the extra digit is akin to an artifact in playback. It's subtle enough not to be immediately identified but large enough to cause a disturbance by way of a deviation from a norm.

Personally, I'm not chasing perfection. I just want to get rid of distractions. The greatest distractions are things that I do not hear in nature. The least distracting are omissions. I suppose that's why I can still get immersed even with systems that are limited in bandwidth. When a new piece is introduced in a system, I note what these distractions are. Some things can be dealt with being properties inherent in the design but the only way to know this is so is to really run the thing through it's paces and to see what can be done to address them. I'm bound to miss some or even a lot of things but there is a point where getting something to fit in takes too much effort. That is the threshold at which I say "not for me".
 

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