The Genesis Dragon

LL21

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Dec 26, 2010
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OK...here is the closest i have come to hearing Gary's mighty Dragons. I heard the Genesis 1.1s...but completely and i mean completely reworked...external Dueland Silver crossovers, ribbons, etc. It is to date the finest sound i have heard and by a wide, wide margin. I have been to Sound by Singer, Extreme? in Turkey, Audio Exotics in HK, full TAD system at Pioneer Plaza in Tokyo, KJ & Metropolis in London, A10 in Amsterdam, a few spots in Cambridge, MA, Madrid Spain, and elsewhere. I have heard at least 4 installations of Wilson X1s, X2s, XLF...plus Tidals with full Sunrays dual tower subs, TAD Ref Ones Mk II, big Thiels, ML CLX/Descents, Maggie 3s, Apogee Stages, SF Strads with subs...nothing prepared me for this. Or my wife who kindly joined me (and also has heard the XLFs, Strads, X1s as well). She, having minimal interest, has patiently taken the time when asked to listen to a few systems and provided comments. In her mind, as my own, there is no contest to what we have heard to date.

The system was in high-ceilinged room (maybe 15') and 17' by 30'. A panetheon of Kondo electronics...Gakuons, M1000, DCS Scarlatti, poured concrete flooring that had been physically separated from the floor that sustained the speakers...you name it. But in the end, i strongly suspect the noise floor, detail and human-ness of all sounds was from the extraordinary dedication to electronics...but the sweeping stage effortlessness of scale, nuance and dynamics was the speakers:

- It made the X1s and XLF installations i heard sound artificial and small by comparison. Dire Straights on Walker Proscenium III...was the last track of the evening, and the scale of the stage (not soundstage...i mean the stage where they were playing)...eclipsed that of the XLFs. OK...different room/different system...but this was not a close contest, and while i would NEVER say NEVER on the XLF sounding bigger in a different room...it would have to reach so far to achieve what i heard last nite, i personally am extremely skeptical it would do so...again having heard big Wilsons in 3-4 set ups in different rooms, some also very large and professionally treated (unlike the set up last nite which had no treatments other than isolation).

- the clarity of detail was so effortless, that listening to deep house, you could hear mumbles and little voices that i honestly think the artist never thought anyone would ever hear, and the words just lifted out of space into the room like they were always there and you knew what words he was saying as easily as if my wife read them to me sitting next to me.

- Audio Exotics in Hong Kong had done a tremendous effort in bringing forth detail from my music...and i had, until last nite, not heard its equal...but unlike trying to compare Tidals to XLFs...where i honestly felt both were contenders...you could choose one over the other, prefer one over the other...extrapolate whether it was the room, or the digital front end...but you could at least make the case that the speakers were contenders to each other...i do not find either to be a contender compared to what i heard.

Coming home, i remain extraordinarily grateful to have music like we have at home...but the X1s never felt more like big bookshelf speakers tonite than after last nite. And i honestly mean that...and i have no other way to say it. What the soundstage of the X1 to tremendous bookshelves in soundstage and effortlessness/detail/scale is comparable to what these incredibly customized Genesis 1.1s were to all of the X1s/X2s/XLFs, Tidal Sunray installations that i have heard.

Any problem? They are huge...i mean huge...and few have the room for them...sadly. The big Wilsons for all their size can remain relatively unobtrusive in a far more moderately sized room. The Genesis 1.1 with its 7' foot dual tower subs and nearly 4' foot wide dual panels (that are also 7.25' feet tall) was an incredible amount of speaker to have before you...but still...;)
 
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LL21

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Lloyd, shhhhhhh. Don't let the secret out :D

Gary - they're utterly and positively insanely good. I have my own opinions. I make mistakes. I could be making one here. But i have heard good electronics before, quite a bit of it actually. I can extrapolate what the Kondos may be doing, and i have auditioned the Scarlatti before...electronics dont do to a pair of speakers what happened last nite. Its the speakers. If I could ever get my head around how to get a pair, and find a house/room big enough to fit them...I obviously would do a far more extensive test, audition, but if i had to [off hand] provide a measurement of scale/effortless/sheer beauty and resolution that is utterly 'there' without any sense of force whatsoever...its XLF to Sasha (NOT Alexia...which is far closer to XLF than XLF is to last nite's highly modd'd Genesis 1.1s with dual tower subs]. For me, they were that good.
 

mep

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So how much are the 1.1s?
 

LL21

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So how much are the 1.1s?

I dont know...these were bought quite old, and then he spent an awful lot completely re-working them with an engineer who joined us for dinner. I did not think it appropriate to ask. I think the current latest Genesis Dragons run about $350K+.
 

garylkoh

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Gary - they're utterly and positively insanely good. I have my own opinions. I make mistakes. I could be making one here. But i have heard good electronics before, quite a bit of it actually. I can extrapolate what the Kondos may be doing, and i have auditioned the Scarlatti before...electronics dont do to a pair of speakers what happened last nite. Its the speakers. If I could ever get my head around how to get a pair, and find a house/room big enough to fit them...I obviously would do a far more extensive test, audition, but if i had to [off hand] provide a measurement of scale/effortless/sheer beauty and resolution that is utterly 'there' without any sense of force whatsoever...its XLF to Sasha (NOT Alexia...which is far closer to XLF than XLF is to last nite's highly modd'd Genesis 1.1s with dual tower subs]. For me, they were that good.

Lloyd, I don't think that you are wrong. When I found out that Genesis had gone bankrupt in 2001, I spent a year auditioning alternatives around the world, and nothing could get even close to a Genesis 1.1.

However, there will be skeptics as Wilson, Tidal, Sonus Farber, etc. are far better represented with reviewers and among well-known audiophiles. Electronics may make a pair of speakers better, but is unlikely to make that sort of difference. Unfortunately, they do need a huge room. Even the smallest of my line-source speakers - the G2Jr - needed the large room to "stretch their legs" during the New York Audio Show.

I'm glad that you had the chance to listen to the big Genesis :)
 

microstrip

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(...) If I could ever get my head around how to get a pair, and find a house/room big enough to fit them...

I think that the bigger issue will be the house! BTW, I also would not mind having a listening room 29 ft x 48 ft with 12 ft ceilings - typical for Genesis 1.1 ;)
 

LL21

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I think that the bigger issue will be the house! BTW, I also would not mind having a listening room 29 ft x 48 ft with 12 ft ceilings - typical for Genesis 1.1 ;)

Agree! If only just to own such a house! Have u heard the big Genesis before?
 

garylkoh

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I think that the bigger issue will be the house! BTW, I also would not mind having a listening room 29 ft x 48 ft with 12 ft ceilings - typical for Genesis 1.1 ;)

:D You're right..... but at least you won't need much in the way of room treatments. Most of my customers have the speakers in the living room. I don't recall any off hand having dedicated listening rooms for the G1's because their family also enjoy the speakers with them. One big difference with the Genesis speakers, is that the sweet spot is everywhere.
 

microstrip

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Agree! If only just to own such a house! Have u heard the big Genesis before?

No - the best I listened was a pair of IRS Beta sounding really great - but also in an old house with 12" ceilings. One of the best LP based systems I have ever listened to, unhappily it sounded very poor on digital. I hope that next time I go to London you will have your big Genesis!
 

microstrip

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:D You're right..... but at least you won't need much in the way of room treatments. Most of my customers have the speakers in the living room. I don't recall any off hand having dedicated listening rooms for the G1's because their family also enjoy the speakers with them. One big difference with the Genesis speakers, is that the sweet spot is everywhere.

It is one of the things I miss from my big SoundLabs - they did not need fancy treatments, just some diffusion in the front wall! And sounded great anywhere in the room.
 

garylkoh

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It is one of the things I miss from my big SoundLabs - they did not need fancy treatments, just some diffusion in the front wall! And sounded great anywhere in the room.

Yes, the big SoundLabs are the other speaker that has this ability to sound great anywhere in the room, and not need fancy treatments. The other speakers that I thought had this was the Magnepan Tympani and the Apogee Grand.
 

GaryProtein

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Lloyd, shhhhhhh. Don't let the secret out :D

That's right. Gary won't be able to make them fast enough to fill his orders.

As Gary said, the sweet spot IS everywhere.
 

garylkoh

WBF Technical Expert (Speakers & Audio Equipment)
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That's right. Gary won't be able to make them fast enough to fill his orders.

As Gary said, the sweet spot IS everywhere.

I'm sure that it's the same with your IRS :) They would still be better than many a modern loudspeaker!!

It was great to meet you in New York - I hope you enjoyed the show.
 

Audiocrack

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I am glad that you were impressed with the Genesis set up, Lloyd. Just to be sure: my room is (only) 4,5m wide, 3,5m high and about 12m long. Although I am sure that a somewhat wider room will create an even better sound, the 4,5m is enough for an impressive listening exerience. In that regard I may have a different opinion than Gary. For the midrange towers Kondo Gakuoh 300b (push pull) amps are being used, while the turntable is the Walker Black Diamond mk III with a Lyra Olympos cartridge played through a Lyra Connoisseur 4.2 phono amp. Please bear in mind that a friend of mine completely reworked the two Xovers making use of the Duelund silver caps xover. This made a huge difference in my system!
 

MylesBAstor

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Apr 20, 2010
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I am glad that you were impressed with the Genesis set up, Lloyd. Just to be sure: my room is (only) 4,5m wide, 3,5m high and about 12m long. Although I am sure that a somewhat wider room will create an even better sound, the 4,5m is enough for an impressive listening exerience. In that regard I may have a different opinion than Gary. For the midrange towers Kondo Gakuoh 300b (push pull) amps are being used, while the turntable is the Walker Black Diamond mk III with a Lyra Olympos cartridge played through a Lyra Connoisseur 4.2 phono amp. Please bear in mind that a friend of mine completely reworked the two Xovers making use of the Duelund silver caps xover. This made a huge difference in my system!

How much did the Duelands set you back? ;)
 

Thf99

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May 1, 2012
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I completely agree with Lloyd's impression of the G1.1s. I'd said it before and I'll say it again... The G1.2s are, I believe, the very best loudspeakers at any price. I haven't heard them all but I'd heard quite a few mega systems over the last couple of months (WAMM, XLF, MAXX, Grand Slams, the top model Eggleston speakers) and I'd listened to the G1.1s and G2.2s quite a while back. Of these, none can hold a candle to the G1.1s. Later next month, I'll try to listen to the Mighty Dragons (G1.2s).
 

Audiocrack

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The silver Duelund caps are expensive but I have not heard better caps yet. Is this the reason why a lot of speakers manufacturers are not using them?
 

LL21

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Dec 26, 2010
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I completely agree with Lloyd's impression of the G1.1s. I'd said it before and I'll say it again... The G1.2s are, I believe, the very best loudspeakers at any price. I haven't heard them all but I'd heard quite a few mega systems over the last couple of months (WAMM, XLF, MAXX, Grand Slams, the top model Eggleston speakers) and I'd listened to the G1.1s and G2.2s quite a while back. Of these, none can hold a candle to the G1.1s. Later next month, I'll try to listen to the Mighty Dragons (G1.2s).

Hi Thf99, good to hear from you again...that is very, very good to know. I think you have heard quite a lot of SOTA equipment, and i have found great insights in your comments before. So very good to know your opinion on these...i look forward to your impressions of Dragons!!
 

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