Gentlemen, draw your swords! Multi-channel or 2-channel?

treitz3 · Dec 7, 2012

Good evening ladies and gentlemen of the forum. It's time to see where the forum stands at this moment in time with regards to your observations of what constitutes the most realistic playback. Have your experiences got you thinking that multi-channel is the path toward the most realistic reproduction of a performance....or has your experience got you thinking that 2-channel is the path toward the most realistic reproduction of a performance.

If you had a stunningly well recording of a performance you just saw...which type of system would you want to use to recreate the event?

Commentary is welcome but let's keep the conversations cordial and informative.

Tom

mep · Dec 7, 2012

Why Tom, are you looking to start another food fight on WBF? "Draw Your Swords?" I could be proven wrong, but I think that there are more 2 channel people here than multi-channel people.

treitz3 · Dec 7, 2012

Hello, Mark. I'm actually glad you asked that question. There should not be any reason for folks to get upset because someone prefers one over the other. Things are what they are. Getting mad over the fact that someone prefers multi-channel over 2-channel is akin to one getting mad over someone liking rock-and-roll when their preference is listening to opera. Kinda silly, don't you think?

I have read some posts lately by some members of the forum that actually surprised me with regards to this very subject. So, I thought I'd create a poll and find out where the membership currently stands. As the forum gains new members years down the road, perhaps we'll do it again to see if the results remain the same or sway toward something else.

The "Draw your swords" comment in the thread header was just an attention grabber. Gotcha!

Tom

GaryProtein · Dec 7, 2012

Maybe as a SuperModerator you could change the title to "Gentlemen start your disk players! Multichannel or two channel," since it's a friendly discussion.

NOTE: vinyl and polycarbonate media are both disks, so disk player is appropriate.

Gregadd · Dec 7, 2012

I've been a vocal defender of two channel.

Kal Rubinson · Dec 7, 2012

I've responded to the poll but I wonder what the point of the discussion is if all we do is express the preference already tallied in the poll. Is there something else we can accomplish?

treitz3 · Dec 7, 2012

Sure, Kal. Discussions of why one chooses what they did. Why would one prefer one over the other? I've read brief mentioning within posts of certain aspects of one preference being more realistic. The discussions of why folks have their observations come to that would clear the light for some who maybe haven't thought about that aspect yet. Just stating a preference is one thing. Having an cordial, yet informative conversation about it is another.

In other words, how did those that voted in the poll arrive at their decisions and what factors about their experiences and observations made them decide the way they did? There is no right or wrong here. Just experiences and observations.

Tom

JackD201 · Dec 7, 2012

My wish would be a well shot and recorded performance. I'd like to see it again as well as hear it. Is that an option in the poll?

BTW audio in MC please.

treitz3 · Dec 7, 2012

JackD201 said:
My wish would be a well shot and recorded performance. I'd like to see it again as well as hear it. Is that an option in the poll?

Unfortunately, no but you'll hear no complaints from me! I'd love to watch it again as well.

Tom

jonboi · Dec 7, 2012

I can only comment that as a Classical musician and music lover who started out with HiFi many years ago, to gain access to recordings of wonderful performances that could thence be heard in the home, and who went on in further years to get caught up in the whole obsession that appears to be the so called high end audiophile scene, that with respect to Classical music in particular, no two channel speaker array of whatever engineering genre of speaker (horns, electrostatics, omnis/semi-omnis, ubiquitous 'box' speakers etc) can do justice to a concert hall sound presentation in terms of believability and realism, that can otherwise be achieved with a multi-channel speaker array.

Some open baffle speakers can come close in my experience - Jamo 909's come to mind, and those with waveguides to deal with and assist the speaker/room interface direct/reflected sound such as the ALT B&O Lab series - but generally no, if you want spatial perspectives as heard in real life, and the 'closest approach to the original sound' then it is unequivocally multi channel in this listeners humble opinion.

Best Wishes for Xmas and the N/Year to all

John.

DaveyF · Dec 8, 2012

I believe that with the right room ( treated correctly) that 2ch is superior to any and all multi-ch that I have ever heard. Could multi ch gain the upper hand, I guess so, BUT it's a long way off right now, IMO.

NorthStar · Dec 8, 2012

jonboi said:
I can only comment that as a Classical musician and music lover who started out with HiFi many years ago, to gain access to recordings of wonderful performances that could thence be heard in the home, and who went on in further years to get caught up in the whole obsession that appears to be the so called high end audiophile scene, that with respect to Classical music in particular, no two channel speaker array of whatever engineering genre of speaker (horns, electrostatics, omnis/semi-omnis, ubiquitous 'box' speakers etc) can do justice to a concert hall sound presentation in terms of believability and realism, that can otherwise be achieved with a multi-channel speaker array.

Some open baffle speakers can come close in my experience - Jamo 909's come to mind, and those with waveguides to deal with and assist the speaker/room interface direct/reflected sound such as the ALT B&O Lab series - but generally no, if you want spatial perspectives as heard in real life, and the 'closest approach to the original sound' then it is unequivocally multi channel in this listeners humble opinion.

Best Wishes for Xmas and the N/Year to all

John.

---- Hi John, and welcome! :b

Classical live music, at a great concert hall venue, from a great performance; ya baby!
...No limits, no definite number of speakers, none as a matter of fact.

* At home, in the comfort of your own space, alone, a good classical multichannel music recording from Channel Classics record label, or similar other great label, on SACD, is unparalleled in recreating at best the live experience. /// IMO ///

But, in a great room, acoustically and professionally treated, with top-notch loudspeakers (read large), and gear to match in synergy (high-end), and or from a great turntable, or a great CD/SACD player, in stereo only; the experience could equally if not bettering the other in satisfying fulfillment but except for the live experience.

NorthStar · Dec 8, 2012

DaveyF said:
I believe that with the right room ( treated correctly) that 2ch is superior to any and all multi-ch that I have ever heard. Could multi ch gain the upper hand, I guess so, BUT it's a long way off right now, IMO.

---- I agree with you Davey. ...And same for a well treated multichannel room. :b

Johnny Vinyl · Dec 8, 2012

Anyone have a multi-channel vinyl rig? I guess it's 2-channel for me!

JonFo · Dec 8, 2012

I've long been a strong proponent of well-done multichannel as a path towards ideal audio reproduction. As usual, source material is critical, but there are quite a few (and I yearn for more) great MCH recordings on high-rez media out there.

The sense of realism in classical (as John notes above) is amazing, whether a string quartet, a full symphony or an amazing organ in a cathedral. The sense of space and depth is unmatched by the 2ch version of the recording.
For dynamic modern MCH recordings, like anything produced by Steve Wilson (Porcupine Tree), the additional power and soundfield distribution enables one to hear deep into the complex soundscapes he paints with his reference-class mixes. Distributing instruments, or using the MCH setup to 'push' sounds in our outside the speaker spread is uncanny.

But as I noted, it requires a good setup. Timing, phasing, room treatment, etc. etc. all contribute to either supporting or destroying the soundfield. Many MCH system are not well setup, and few have a decent enough center channel to do the scheme justice. I finally tired of sub-par centers, even the $3K+ center from MartinLogan I had was just not the equal of my Monoliths, so I designed and built my own center. Now that all 5 speakers and the room are tuned, the soundfield and dynamic range can show just how amazing a MCH audio really is.

JonFo · Dec 8, 2012

John72953 said:
Anyone have a multi-channel vinyl rig? I guess it's 2-channel for me!

I used to, almost 30 years ago

Garrard Turntable, AudioTechnica CD-4 cart, JVC CD-4 demodulator, feeding a big Sansui Quad receiver (w/ SQ/QS decoders) driving 4 Large Advents.

It was pretty cool for the day. But tech and recordings have dramatically improved since then. I'd never want to hear that setup again after what I have now.

flez007 · Dec 8, 2012

I voted 2channel, BUT...the demo I heard using multichannel headphones at RMAF got me in, at least in that format.

Johnny Vinyl · Dec 8, 2012

JonFo said:
I used to, almost 30 years ago

Garrard Turntable, AudioTechnica CD-4 cart, JVC CD-4 demodulator, feeding a big Sansui Quad receiver (w/ SQ/QS decoders) driving 4 Large Advents.

It was pretty cool for the day. But tech and recordings have dramatically improved since then. I'd never want to hear that setup again after what I have now.

I never got to hear anything like that back then, but yes...I would have imagined it to be quite cool! Sweet! Glad you had the experience.

If a recording is in stereo, I want to listen to it in stereo. I despise matrixing, which so many HT fans seem to like.

NorthStar · Dec 8, 2012

John72953 said:
Anyone have a multi-channel vinyl rig? I guess it's 2-channel for me!

---- Quad?

Actually you know what John, with most multichannel pre/pros and receivers, you can use Dolby ProLogic II Music audio mode, and they just digitize everything, even analog sources, like your turntable. And then you have surround sound. They'll even EQ your room automatically for you. ...With the full speaker's calibrations.

All you need to to, is to turn your life around.

Johnny Vinyl · Dec 8, 2012

NorthStar said:
---- Quad?

Like I said...I never heard it in person.

Gentlemen, draw your swords! Multi-channel or 2-channel?

What are your observations?

Multi-Channel

2-Channel

Other type

Haven't decided yet

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