Digital that sounds like analog

LL21

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Dec 26, 2010
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Time for another de-recommendation, this time rather a surprising one. Normally I associate the EMI label with decent dynamics, here's an exception which sounds like it has been mastered with DSD. The date though suggests not (1999) - John Dunkerley is the recording engineer who normally is with Decca and has impeccable taste. Argerich and Perlman are of course top notch artists so I'm wondering how much the sucky dynamics has influenced the Amazon reviews which are decidedly mixed : http://www.amazon.com/Beethoven-Violin-Sonata-Kreutzer-Franck/dp/B00002CF0S/

@egidius - what label is Brendel's Diabelli on?

If you go to Amazon, there is Brendel diabelli on Decca, Phillips and Alto.
51vfARGEJpL__SL500_AA280_.jpg 61z8eHmX8JL__SL500_AA300_.jpg 51hW5-8Yz1L__AA160_.jpg
 

opus111

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Feb 10, 2012
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There is very good sounding Konstantin Scherbakoff version on Naxos, and of course a mediocre sounding CD version of Serkin, who is actually one of my favourite pianists (I did a project on Adolf Busch, and will do a project on Serkin:the website www.adolfbusch.ch will have more details somewhere in April..) - I still hope to find sometime a better transfer of the CBS tapes.

As you mentioned Serkin, I found I had this one in my collection and gave it a spin last night :

http://www.amazon.com/Chopin-Préludes-Op-Unreleased-Recording/dp/B0002F4C84/

Highly recommended - only drawback to the sound I found was a little tape wow - I disagree with the lone reviewer who found it 'too resonant'. I rather suspect his CD player had problems resolving the ambience cues. Immensely satisfying performance from 1976, somewhat reminiscent to me of the playing of Perlemuter - the opposite end of the spectrum to Pollini.

@Lloyd - thanks for the heads up. I'm rather wary of buying Brendel recordings because of the preponderance of 1bit sound on so many of his that I have...
 

egidius

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Feb 13, 2011
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early vox box brendel - more on Serkin

I'm rather wary of buying Brendel recordings because of the preponderance of 1bit sound on so many of his that I have...

Does that apply to his early reissued vox box collections? there i find rather the head in the piano experience a bit troublesome..
No the latest Diabelli of the old Brendel is truly outstanding.
I recently uncovered the Staier recording on a Hammerflügel..(fortepiano) very interesting, must listen with time..none now.

The story behind Serkin:
He is the son in law of Adolf Busch, himself easily the most sought after european violin soloist between the wars (please check the truly wonderful book of Tully Potter on this very special violinist (with Szigeti my favourite of the old ones)

http://www.toccatapress.com/book/adolf-busch-life-honest-musician-potter.html

So his aestetics were absolutely shaped by this chambermusic education. He and Busch later founded Marlboro Festival, as a way out of their uprooting misery removal from Switzerland, where they had sought refuge, because they did adamantly not play in Germany IMMEDIATELY from 1933! There was only a handful of eminent personalities of whom this can be said!

To make it short, yes his playing is exquisit!
 

egidius

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Feb 13, 2011
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perlman argerich

Time for another de-recommendation, this time rather a surprising one. Normally I associate the EMI label with decent dynamics, here's an exception which sounds like it has been mastered with DSD. The date though suggests not (1999) - John Dunkerley is the recording engineer who normally is with Decca and has impeccable taste. Argerich and Perlman are of course top notch artists...

Well, I am just listening to this right now, and I am not quite sure: As much as I admire Argerich and Perlman, I actually wonder if they get on in the Beethoven ;-). Perlmans lovely sounds seem strained, and Martha Argerich has her sometimes startling increase in tempo, which he does not seem to counter, nor to accept, a weird Kreutzer experience for me. Very different in the Franck, that seems to be ok, still not stunning. Maybe Perlman not on a hot day - Something you would never notice in concert but unfortunately the recording keeps those moments too :(

Indeed, when talking about Argerich and Franck Sonata, I once heard her with an elderly Ruggiero Ricci - AMAZING!

@opus111: Unfortunately I cannot judge your comment re mastering: How do you hear that?
 

LL21

Well-Known Member
Dec 26, 2010
14,411
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@Lloyd - thanks for the heads up. I'm rather wary of buying Brendel recordings because of the preponderance of 1bit sound on so many of his that I have...

Does that apply to his early reissued vox box collections? there i find rather the head in the piano experience a bit troublesome..No the latest Diabelli of the old Brendel is truly outstanding.
I recently uncovered the Staier recording on a Hammerflügel..(fortepiano) very interesting, must listen with time..none now.

Hi Opus, if Egidius is right and your observations on mastering does NOT apply to the Brendel Vox collections, see below the photos i posted (#422)...the Alto label is well regarded for older collections/recordings i think. Maybe worth a listen?
 

opus111

Banned
Feb 10, 2012
1,286
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Hangzhou, China
@opus111: Unfortunately I cannot judge your comment re mastering: How do you hear that?

I hear it as noise modulation - loss of dynamics. But if you are listening with a DAC that adds its own noise modulation (that would be almost any S-D type) then you won't notice the dynamics loss on some recordings because the ones with great dynamics will sound the same as those without. We do tend to need a point of reference - I just notice that some recordings have the dynamics and others had added noise (particularly HF, normally the LF dynamics is less affected).
 

egidius

Member Sponsor
Feb 13, 2011
430
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S-D

I hear it as noise modulation - loss of dynamics. But if you are listening with a DAC that adds its own noise modulation (that would be almost any S-D type) then you won't notice the dynamics loss on some recordings because the ones with great dynamics will sound the same as those without. We do tend to need a point of reference - I just notice that some recordings have the dynamics and others had added noise (particularly HF, normally the LF dynamics is less affected).

I have been following your discussions on S-D type chips, without understanding too much about it ;-) me being a violinist..

I use two players, a NOS Bow ZZ8, that Lars updated to mk3 status, and a an equally interesting WadiaGNSC S7i. All I can detect is the noise alright, without attributing it to a single culprit. Well I try to listen for it when in critical mood.

But on another note: You can find out all about the Diabelli-Variations on this link:

http://www.beethoven-haus-bonn.de/s...Ludwig van Beethovens&suchparameter=&_seite=1


they recently bought the manuscript with a lot of public support, so they made it free ware to look at, or you can buy a facsimile really dirt cheap.
 

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