Digital that sounds like analog

LL21 · Dec 15, 2012

opus111 said:
Yes I'm not saying I dislike them now, but with the huge choice out there then there are indeed so many others I now prefer. Like Mercury Living Presence and Decca just to name but two. Many of the older analog recordings have really come alive for me since I began my DAC odyssey and departed the land of S-D

yes, we are saying the same thing...i have found older recordings are more beautiful than i originally realized. Endellion String Quartet on Beethoven...i have the complete works...originally very thin, but well played...so i listened but not too often. now, listen often in my current system. A lot of improvement in the system appears to have revealed to me much more about those works with greater fullness...and yet other 'standard test cds' i have used have not changed or certainly not become 'more full' than before. so clearly, that to me means, the system is doing something better.

opus111 · Dec 15, 2012

I put the RR back in the CD case and moved on to something I've loved almost since I was an egg - Grieg's piano concerto, played on this recording (1974) by the incomparably awesome Sviatoslav Richter. If the drum roll that opens this disc doesn't send shivers down your spine you're listening through the wrong DAC (probably a S-D one). Grieg's piano concerto was my first ever real classical concert visit to the Royal Festival Hall, London with the soloist Phyllis Sellick. My piano teacher for some reason got us backstage afterwards and I got her autograph. Another reason I'm crazy about this piece is my mother's step mother had a set of it on 78s and she'd stack them up on the autochanger for me when we visited. The SQ is indeed scrappy in places (as Amazon reviewers point out - tape seems to overload too many times) but this is still a highly pleasurable recording to savour : http://www.amazon.com/Grieg-Piano-Concerto-Schumann-Richter/dp/B00008RGZK/

LL21 · Dec 15, 2012

opus111 said:
I put the RR back in the CD case and moved on to something I've loved almost since I was an egg - Grieg's piano concerto, played on this recording (1974) by the incomparably awesome Sviatoslav Richter. If the drum roll that opens this disc doesn't send shivers down your spine you're listening through the wrong DAC (probably a S-D one). Grieg's piano concerto was my first ever real classical concert visit to the Royal Festival Hall, London with the soloist Phyllis Sellick. My piano teacher for some reason got us backstage afterwards and I got her autograph. Another reason I'm crazy about this piece is my mother's step mother had a set of it on 78s and she'd stack them up on the autochanger for me when we visited. The SQ is indeed scrappy in places (as Amazon reviewers point out - tape seems to overload too many times) but this is still a highly pleasurable recording to savour : http://www.amazon.com/Grieg-Piano-Concerto-Schumann-Richter/dp/B00008RGZK/

These are the 2 i have an enjoy a lot:

Grieg: Piano Concerto in A minor Op. 16; Schumann: Piano Concerto in A minor Op. 54 ...Leif Andsnes
Grieg: Piano Concerto in A Minor Op. 16 - schumann: A Op54...Rada Lupu...FIM Remastered Version!

A.wayne · Dec 15, 2012

lloydelee21 said:
yes, we are saying the same thing...i have found older recordings are more beautiful than i originally realized. Endellion String Quartet on Beethoven...i have the complete works...originally very thin, but well played...so i listened but not too often. now, listen often in my current system. A lot of improvement in the system appears to have revealed to me much more about those works with greater fullness...and yet other 'standard test cds' i have used have not changed or certainly not become 'more full' than before. so clearly, that to me means, the system is doing something better.

There was a lot of art practiced on recordings during the 60's , i'm very rarely disappointed on stuff recorded during that era ...

A.wayne · Dec 15, 2012

opus111 said:
I put the RR back in the CD case and moved on to something I've loved almost since I was an egg - Grieg's piano concerto, played on this recording (1974) by the incomparably awesome Sviatoslav Richter. If the drum roll that opens this disc doesn't send shivers down your spine you're listening through the wrong DAC (probably a S-D one). Grieg's piano concerto was my first ever real classical concert visit to the Royal Festival Hall, London with the soloist Phyllis Sellick. My piano teacher for some reason got us backstage afterwards and I got her autograph. Another reason I'm crazy about this piece is my mother's step mother had a set of it on 78s and she'd stack them up on the autochanger for me when we visited. The SQ is indeed scrappy in places (as Amazon reviewers point out - tape seems to overload too many times) but this is still a highly pleasurable recording to savour : http://www.amazon.com/Grieg-Piano-Concerto-Schumann-Richter/dp/B00008RGZK/

Is the description listed correct as to inputs and outputs ...?

opus111 · Dec 15, 2012

Can't make sense of your question here - which description and which inputs and outputs?

A.wayne · Dec 15, 2012

Is the description listed on Ebay correct , as to inputs and outputs ..?

Is this DAC ThorstonL approved ....

opus111 · Dec 15, 2012

Oh that's why I got confused, you quoted my post about Grieg and Richter but asked about something a few posts prior. I'll double check and confirm here later.

When you say 'this DAC' do you mean the one I linked to or the one I'm designing? If you're asking if my designs are Thorsten approved then almost certainly not in the details but I'd probably get approval from him as regards the sound as we have broadly similar tastes it seems. That being dislike for S-D and appreciation for classic multibit with its superior dynamics and tonal accuracy.

Gregadd · Dec 15, 2012

These are the 2 i have an enjoy a lot:

Grieg: Piano Concerto in A minor Op. 16; Schumann: Piano Concerto in A minor Op. 54 ...Leif Andsnes
Grieg: Piano Concerto in A Minor Op. 16 - schumann: A Op54...Rada Lupu...FIM Remastered Version!

I find classical music quiets the demons. I'll put them on my list.
Thanks LLoyd

A.wayne · Dec 15, 2012

The DAC You linked to on ebay , how is it different from the one you are designing .....? yes i know i did not read thru all the pages , forgive me Dac -ey San ..

opus111 · Dec 15, 2012

The DAC I linked to is to be the foundation for my own DAC - I am too lazy to start from scratch and not at all accomplished at mechanical casework. So I prefer the modding route to creating a DAC - I have modded 3 of these so far, all in slightly different ways so this'll be the fourth one. I'll be stripping out the TDA1543 DACs and the opamp output buffer and replacing them with TDA1387 (or perhaps TDA1545A) and a differential buffer stage based on two AD603s. The digital stuff will stay pretty much as-is, just one or two enhancements to the grounding and fitting an input trafo. What I haven't tested yet is how well the filters fit inside the box, I'm thinking of replacing the R-core trafo with a smaller one as my design doesn't need those three separate supplies. However it all rather depends on how easily it all fits securely in the box.

A.wayne · Dec 15, 2012

Use two boxes ,seperate the PSU , get it away from all those inductors . Are you recommending that standard DAC on ebay or just for purchase if pursuing your mods ..?

How is the sound of the standard Dac ...?

opus111 · Dec 15, 2012

This isn't intended to be a DAC with all the possible refinements, rather a cheap-and-dirty attempt to get the best bang for a very cheap buck. I confidently predict it to blow away any S-D based DAC (that includes everything up to and including dCS Vivaldi) on redbook (and only on redbook) with jaw dropping dynamics which for me are a non-negotiable aspect of a DACs performance. I hope it will easily better the Metrum Octave and cost substantially less - not taking account of the time taken to carry out the mods.

The standard DAC is OK for the amount of money they want, but it uses TDA1543 which to my ears are coloured, it has the normal NOS droop so sounds too recessed due to the roll-off. It has a bit of sibilance on vocals from what I can recall and not a great soundstage definition due to sub-optimal grounding. I doubt that its any worse than the Octave - but that's conjecture as I haven't heard the Octave myself.

The additional cost of the parts for my mods to the DAC-AH will probably less than double the purchase price of $138. So all being well for under $250 shelled out and a hafty investment in time and effort you'll have something quite unobtainable on the market today below a few kilodollars in price - a NOS DAC that not only measures fairly decently by standard FR and THD+N metrics but delivers an extreme level of audio satisfaction

Kindhornman · Dec 15, 2012

So now Richard,
What is the intended end use of this DAC going to be? Is it to replace an internal converter in a CPD or is it intended to be an outboard processor for a transport of some other storage method such as hard drives?

And for some reason, though I have it set the thread tool to let me know something is going on with this thread I am not getting any email notices. Sometimes they seem to work and then they stop again. Any ideas or is this normal for this site?

LL21 · Dec 15, 2012

opus111 said:
This isn't intended to be a DAC with all the possible refinements, rather a cheap-and-dirty attempt to get the best bang for a very cheap buck. I confidently predict it to blow away any S-D based DAC (that includes everything up to and including dCS Vivaldi) on redbook (and only on redbook) with jaw dropping dynamics which for me are a non-negotiable aspect of a DACs performance. I hope it will easily better the Metrum Octave and cost substantially less - not taking account of the time taken to carry out the mods.

The standard DAC is OK for the amount of money they want, but it uses TDA1543 which to my ears are coloured, it has the normal NOS droop so sounds too recessed due to the roll-off. It has a bit of sibilance on vocals from what I can recall and not a great soundstage definition due to sub-optimal grounding. I doubt that its any worse than the Octave - but that's conjecture as I haven't heard the Octave myself.

The additional cost of the parts for my mods to the DAC-AH will probably less than double the purchase price of $138. So all being well for under $250 shelled out and a hafty investment in time and effort you'll have something quite unobtainable on the market today below a few kilodollars in price - a NOS DAC that not only measures fairly decently by standard FR and THD+N metrics but delivers an extreme level of audio satisfaction

You have clearly sought out the uppermost in competition to beat (price-wise anyway)...i cannot wait to hear this someday. Though i think i have a good sense with my Zanden, and i admit...it is addictive on nearly all of my 1600 CDs...

opus111 · Dec 15, 2012

Kindhornman said:
So now Richard,
What is the intended end use of this DAC going to be? Is it to replace an internal converter in a CPD or is it intended to be an outboard processor for a transport of some other storage method such as hard drives?

Its intended for use anywhere where the end user has 44k1/16 material they'd like to listen to with an absolute minimum of noise modulation. It will have only SPDIF and Toslink inputs though - to use with USB an external converter will be needed. But it will work fine with a cheap one of those ($30) nothing fancy is called for.

I have no ideas about notification failures - they don't much happen on here for me but have noticed them on DIYA of late.

opus111 · Dec 15, 2012

Another disc I've fallen out of love with...

Two discs actually. This morning I decided to kick off with Madeleine Peyroux - http://www.amazon.com/Standing-Rooftop-Madeleine-Peyroux/dp/B004WJRFNU/ but after a couple of seconds I realized there was something wrong - no dynamics. I thought at first perhaps its just this disc so I went back to one of her earlier albums - 'Bare Bones'. No, exactly the same - obvious noise modulation.

Then I figured perhaps a ground wire had a bad contact on my DAC as that in the past has resulted in lost dynamics. So I went to one of my favourite classical recordings which has dynamics. No problem with that, so this loss of dynamics on Ms Peyroux must be down to her studio's ADC. If you love dynamics, don't get either of these discs. The music's perfectly fine though if you're not a dynamics fiend like me.

NorthStar · Dec 15, 2012

'Standing on the Rooftop' and all ...

-- Huge fan of Madeleine Peyroux here; got all her CDs. :b

'Half the Perfect World' is a must have as well.

opus111 · Dec 15, 2012

Yep I'm still a huge fan of her, just she needs to get some recording engineers with ears for a decent ADC

opus111 · Dec 15, 2012

Here's a disc where digital sound shows its true clarity and advantage over analog - http://www.amazon.com/H%C3%A9l%C3%A8ne-Grimaud-Plays-Johann-Sebastian/dp/B001NESPH2/. DG is one record company that's doing it right, and Helene Grimaud's playing is simply wonderful. Top notch

Digital that sounds like analog

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