---- ...And even on the Internet, from most audio/video sites. :b
'Electronic' websites?
The Harmonizer
- Thread starter HK Panda
- Start date
---- ...And even on the Internet, from most audio/video sites. :b
'Electronic' websites?
Your right. Its too small to be a bass trap because it isnt one. It's a low-frequency pulse generator(s). Very much like this device http://www.acoustic-revive.com/english/roomtuning/rr-77.html
To understand and believe in what it does, you first have to subscibe to the belief that corners and standing waves are bad things. If you take it one step further and believe that moving waves are less obstructive than standing waves, then its easier to believe that this technology might actually be real.
To understand and believe in what it does, you first have to subscibe to the belief that corners and standing waves are bad things. If you take it one step further and believe that moving waves are less obstructive than standing waves, then its easier to believe that this technology might actually be real.
Well, i have done enough reading and web based research to believe there might be something to this technology. The stein device is way too expensive, the Acoustic Revive RR-77 can be purchased for about $450, and there are knockoffs that are about $160 out there. I'll most likely get the cheap knockoff device and see for myself.
Perhaps. Can you measure Extreme Low Frequency? Below 8 hz? Its below the threshhold of hearing... But could you record it?
Question 1: Yes
Question 2: Yes
Question 3 : yes
See there is such a thing as science
... We are here to learn and derive more enjoyment out of our stereo system. We, here, at the WBF are decidedly more polite than many other fora. maybe than most but there is a limit, when it is reached ... Enjoy the presence of whatever you perceive to provide benefits, in your system..It's your money after all..
For the neophyte to the wonderful world of High End Audio. Careful with your hard earned money .. If the explanation seems bogus .. it likely is ... Among the telltales? Anything that proclaims a new discovery in physics ... Anything that uses "Quantum Physics" to explain what it "does" ...
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No, you have to subscribe to the theory that:
"The "Schumann Resonance" is a resonance frequency that exists in the Earth's "electromagnetic" cavity; i.e. between terrestrial surface and ionosphere. German physicist W.O.Schumann first detected the resonant properties of this terrestrial cavity in 1954. It is said that the Schumann Resonance is a breathing phenomenon of the Earth that is lasting from old time of the Earth creation and is giving a positive effect to the human brain."
You know Gary that is a crock.
And that's something that has stood up to mathematical scrutiny. Go over to AAsylum where John Atkinson posted the statistics showing ZERO, ZIP, NADA correlation between reviews and advertising at Stereophile. Not to mention the two depts. are separate entities. There are just as many manufacturers who get a review and advertise as get a review and don't advertise.
Or take for example internet mags. The editors have no idea about the content of the review until the piece is handed in --and then the review usually is online within a day. So where does the coercion come into play? Not to mention, the manufacturer doesn't have any idea of the review until it's published or until they're given a chance to comment upon the review.
But what is WRONG about a manufacturer getting a review and advertising? Isn't that smart business?
If you must, it was actually the above ground mags that should be taken to task for trading reviews for ads.
But since you're bringing the subject up, please give us specific examples of where magazines crossed the line. Inquiring minds want to know.
OTOH, makes for great conspiracy theories though.
The reviewer has a fertile imagination. Everybody knows you can't get those kinds of results from a Harmonizer unless it is left in a deep freeze for a week, thoroughly thawed, then plugged in and run in the listening room, with the speakers removed, for at least 48 hours prior to setting the speakers back up and listening. He makes no mention of any of these critical preparations, and that's how we know his review is pure fantasy.
And yes, that's a lot of pre-listening trouble, but oh, the sound! The neighborhood disappears! Walls, roofs, trees, streets...that yippy Schnauzer across the street...they all vanish, to be replaced by a soundstage of epic proportions!
Tim
And yes, that's a lot of pre-listening trouble, but oh, the sound! The neighborhood disappears! Walls, roofs, trees, streets...that yippy Schnauzer across the street...they all vanish, to be replaced by a soundstage of epic proportions!
Tim
my speakers are rated at -3db at 7hz and -6db at 3hz. i have not measured in-room. the speaker designer will be visiting 'soon' for set-up tweaking and he will measure in room with his tools.
i now hear things in recordings which it's not likely the mixing and mastering engineer knew where there. the ambient information is very complete when it's on the recording. deep bass retrieval has musical implications.
while i agree with the skeptical viewpoints of this tweak, to me it falls under the heading of who knows? i'd try it if it was free and see what happens. i'm always curious and open minded......and i hope open-eared. how can you learn something if it first has to get by your knowledge and comfort zone limits? again, i do respect that this type of tweak should be met with lots of doubts. and i share those. but if someone came over with this and wanted me to try it i would be glad to.
What I find interesting is that I reached out here to find out if anyone that had first hand experience with such a device, and the two that responded that they had, said the technology worked. Let's assume for argument sake that they both are fooled by a placebo effect. That still does not account for the numerous people who have posted to the the Agon forums regarding the acoustic revive product and said that it works. I think one person said they didn't notice anything different.
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/frr.pl?raccs&1209469699&openflup&3&4#3
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/frr.pl?raccs&1209469699&openflup&3&4#3
Someone (or MANY someones) saying they heard a difference doesn't mean there WAS a difference.
I remember years ago there was some company that sold these little discs about the size of a poker chip that you mounted on the walls (Mpingo?). I was visiting a customer's home and his room was completely untreated and he had these huge Dunlavy SC-VI speakers. There was close to zero articulation and bass boom was horrendous. He had ONE of these "poker chips" thingies mounted on one wall (the wall was probably 25 feet long and 9 feet high) and he insisted this single "thingie" interrupted the laminar flow of the sound waves and greatly improved sound stage and imaging. So on a surface of 32,000 square inches of wall, a thing that occupied approximately 2 square inches affected the imaging.
Science not withstanding, there was no way in the world he could have heard a difference given how incredibly crappy the system/room sounded but he insisted he "heard" the difference.
I don't know if this Harmonizer does anything or not but, to repeat myself, just because someone says they heard an improvement does not mean there was one
you mean like the size of a tweeter?
i agree that your experience back then with this guy was likely a placebo event. but anything in a room can vibrate and change things. heck; if you have an extra set of speakers in your room the unpowered drivers will act like passive radiators and change the tonal balance. so the fact that it's small is not the issue. i do agree that the lack of articulation in that guy's room rendered the reality of what he claimed to hear as highly questionable.
Mike: Tweeters do resonate. But we are talking about an incredibly hard (and very small) disk (smaller than most tweeters) located a very long way from the speaker. The disk may have been an eighth or a quarter of an inch thick. And it is on a large wall that obviously resonates. This disk has the surface area of .006% of the wall (and way less than that if all of the resonating surface areas in the room are counted), Even in a room as articulate as yours, this device would have zero audible sonic attributes. Could someone measure the movement of the disk and differentiate it's movement from the wall with some very sophisticated electronic measuring gear and show that it did move? Probably. Could one hear it? Not a shot. I might have felt different if he had 1000 of these thingies mounted around the room.
There have been a zillion tests on expectation bias in all fields. This guy paid whatever he paid for that disk and would never admit he could not hear a difference.
There have been a zillion tests on expectation bias in all fields. This guy paid whatever he paid for that disk and would never admit he could not hear a difference.
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It maybe useful to imatimbbab.. to re-read cjbrw post ... If you truly believe in the explanation, ergo.. that air vibrates at certain frequency and that the thing makes air more permissive then by all means do go, buy it and you will hear "great" improvements, the soundstage will become so much larger , etc ... That is you money and no one can tell you much. OTOH if you turn on just for a few minutes you BS-meter you may have to admit that such explanation pegs its meter to the max. That should raise all flags.
High End Audio more so than any hobby is replete with those "companies".. They study or observe our tendencies,. It seems that most of us are individuals who are constantly looking to improve their systems at times in an almost pathological manner. The BS artists also know that any person able or willing to shell out $10K and a lot more for a speaker has more than a healthy level of discretionary income... Audiophiles deal in finding perfect things , ths we are also interested in good cars, watches, pens, phones, you name we try to go for "the best" ...They also notice that we are willing to believe, we almost want to believe that everything makes a difference ( I have been there, posted about it, maintained it ...). They, then, move for the kill, they pounce and they know that once we believe, we will start focusing on parts of the music we never focused before and declare that the "thing" made a difference ... Remember we usually find that most any "things' make a difference , often in the case where no "thing" was even added to the system (a cruel joke ) ... Their "things" then sells a few at a dear price (which cost them close to nothing to make) make a killing on the few sales they generates... Margins of 1000% are commonplace!! Helped by innocent forum members in many case and not so innocent in others. Then after a few months the new "thing" falls in oblivion soon to be replaced by a new, improved version or an altogether different "thing" from a different "company" often from the same owners ..
Caveat Emptor
High End Audio more so than any hobby is replete with those "companies".. They study or observe our tendencies,. It seems that most of us are individuals who are constantly looking to improve their systems at times in an almost pathological manner. The BS artists also know that any person able or willing to shell out $10K and a lot more for a speaker has more than a healthy level of discretionary income... Audiophiles deal in finding perfect things , ths we are also interested in good cars, watches, pens, phones, you name we try to go for "the best" ...They also notice that we are willing to believe, we almost want to believe that everything makes a difference ( I have been there, posted about it, maintained it ...). They, then, move for the kill, they pounce and they know that once we believe, we will start focusing on parts of the music we never focused before and declare that the "thing" made a difference ... Remember we usually find that most any "things' make a difference , often in the case where no "thing" was even added to the system (a cruel joke ) ... Their "things" then sells a few at a dear price (which cost them close to nothing to make) make a killing on the few sales they generates... Margins of 1000% are commonplace!! Helped by innocent forum members in many case and not so innocent in others. Then after a few months the new "thing" falls in oblivion soon to be replaced by a new, improved version or an altogether different "thing" from a different "company" often from the same owners ..
Caveat Emptor
i do agree 100% that it's not logical that that should work. whether it works or not is another question.
we don't know that it can't work is my only point.
If someone doesn't start running away from such after this introduction . he/she deserves to be parted with his/her money ...
Funny, that's where I stopped
sure.
we all have our own ways to make judgements for every decision we make on system building. for myself, i typically take a few days or a week and live with something over time. i have my test tracks and such that i use.
then pull it out and see how i feel.
OTOH blind testing is simply not, and never will be, one of the methods for me. occasionally inadvertently i do find i have tried something blind and thats all good too.
if blind testing works for you, then i respect that.
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