Architectural Audio: Sometime it matters what it looks like

amirm

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Apr 2, 2010
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When I step outside of this forum, the real life situation of people buying expensive gear is one of wanting to enjoy music but frankly, not see it. We have seen a trend in this respect with more compact speaker enclosures even in the high-end of the market. But the ultimate is making the speaker "go away." I wrote an article that came out in the last issue of Widescreen Review, outlining two case studies for projects we have done. It is a departure from my typical über technical writing :). But hopefully you still find it informative to read and see our efforts to still aim for some measure of fidelity.

Architectural Audio: http://www.madronadigital.com/Library/ArchitecturalAudio.html

Feedback and comments are welcome as usual.
 

kach22i

WBF Founding Member
Apr 21, 2010
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www.kachadoorian.com
FYI: Photo's #2 and #4 (both speaker details) do not show up when using Google Chrome as a browser. Using MS Explorer they are red "X"'s.

Back in 2008 I spent about a month in Portland Oregon, and one of the stereo stores down the street from Echo audio had the behind drywall speakers. I was shocked that they didn't sound muffled.

Who is the manufacturer of the "mirror" TV?

EDIT-1: I think I found it.
http://www.hiddentelevision.com/samsungledmirrortv.htm

EDIT-2:
Looks like you wrote all of these articles too.
http://www.madronadigital.com/Library/Library.html

You have been busy.
 
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JonFo

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Jun 11, 2010
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Big Canoe, GA
www.jonathanfoulkes.com
If one wants true high-fidelity AND architectural invisibility, check out the Wisdom Audio line. The Sage series is pretty cool.

I heard a demo at CES where they essentially did a room inside a room deal with their large planar magnetic in-walls in a false wall. Driven by their active crossover, bi-amped and room corrected controller, this was one of the most impressive sounding demos I've heard.

Not cheap, but truly able to deliver high-end results.
 

Bill Hart

Well-Known Member
May 11, 2012
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Some random thoughts:
a lot of us are smitten with the gear, and want to see it. For the most part, it is unsightly (except to a gearhead), but there are exceptions.
Many good systems are installed in rooms that look cluttered, or worse. And sometimes, the available space for a dedicated room is a basement or other room that is not the most dramatic looking room in the house.
When you look at design and architecture magazines, blogs and the like, you rarely, if ever, see hi-fi gear.
I get the idea of invisibility, but I like seeing the gear, particularly if it is dramatic looking. (Some of my stuff, the Big Kuzma table and the Avantgarde Duos, are very cool looking, even to people who ordinarily wouldn't give a thought to audio).
The real challenge, to me, would be to integrate visible gear into a room with captivating aesthetics.
I love the look of the one room you posted, Amir- the wall of glass is a little frightening acoustically, but what a glorious looking room.
I'm leaning modern right now for my next place~ we will see, but I'm at a point where I like the clean lines of classic (richard neutra) modern design.
 

RBFC

WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
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www.fightingconcepts.com
If one wants true high-fidelity AND architectural invisibility, check out the Wisdom Audio line. The Sage series is pretty cool.

I heard a demo at CES where they essentially did a room inside a room deal with their large planar magnetic in-walls in a false wall. Driven by their active crossover, bi-amped and room corrected controller, this was one of the most impressive sounding demos I've heard.

Not cheap, but truly able to deliver high-end results.

Madrona Digital carries (or did carry) the Wisdom Audio line. Amir has posted several comments about their speakers here.

Lee
 

amirm

Banned
Apr 2, 2010
15,813
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0
Seattle, WA
If one wants true high-fidelity AND architectural invisibility, check out the Wisdom Audio line. The Sage series is pretty cool.

I heard a demo at CES where they essentially did a room inside a room deal with their large planar magnetic in-walls in a false wall. Driven by their active crossover, bi-amped and room corrected controller, this was one of the most impressive sounding demos I've heard.

Not cheap, but truly able to deliver high-end results.
As Lee mentioned when we first started the company we carried the Wisdom Sage line. It was designed to be the showcase of our main theater. Alas, we could never get them to perform and as a result we didn't sell any (other than the subs). So after a couple of years we parted ways.

Even if we had them, they don't go where these other solutions go where even the speaker grill is unacceptable.
 

amirm

Banned
Apr 2, 2010
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Seattle, WA
I love the look of the one room you posted, Amir- the wall of glass is a little frightening acoustically, but what a glorious looking room.
It is an amazing wall. If you are familiar with "nano walls" this is a custom version of it. They are massive, massive, massive! We are taking about metal frame panels that are ~8 inches thick and way taller than you. Yet you can fold them with one hand. The entire wall opens like an accordion.

We work on many such architectures. Alas, it is difficult to get permission from our customers to take pictures for public consumption. In this instance the owners were kind enough to let us do that.

As an aside, that picture is an HDR composite. I went there the first time trying to shoot it and the much brighter windows relative to the indoor lighting made for useless pictures. This one is a composite of three images. I started with 21 megapixel raw images. When I created it photoshop grew to nearly three gigabytes just trying to edit this one image! Had to buy four extra gigabytes for my laptop to finish the work. When these articles get used for print they need to be very high resolution so I had to stay with that. As an aside, a shorter version of the article went into our local Premier Builder magazine which goes to high-end architect and designers.

I'm leaning modern right now for my next place~ we will see, but I'm at a point where I like the clean lines of classic (richard neutra) modern design.
They do have a nice appeal. I never liked the old modern design (plastic chairs and such). But these new ones are quite appealing.
 

NorthStar

Member
Feb 8, 2011
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Vancouver Island, B.C. Canada
-- What you are proposing Amir is a lifestyle, not an audiophile life.

...A decor in which you become part of it, instead of you having control (intimate interaction) with your environment and your music (and movies).

It suits a certain type of "chic" people, and the integration to suit their needs ($$$).

I think. :b
 

amirm

Banned
Apr 2, 2010
15,813
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0
Seattle, WA
-- What you are proposing Amir is a lifestyle, not an audiophile life.

...A decor in which you become part of it, instead of you having control (intimate interaction) with your environment and your music (and movies).

It suits a certain type of "chic" people, and the integration to suit their needs ($$$).

I think. :b
They are not exclusive Bob. These are solutions for different rooms in the house. Many of these invisible speakers go into kitchens, living room and libraries (they work with wood paneling too). Then the customer may opt to have a dedicated space where we build them a theater. While we also cover the speakers with fabric there, the performance is still way up there.
 

NorthStar

Member
Feb 8, 2011
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Vancouver Island, B.C. Canada
They are not exclusive Bob. These are solutions for different rooms in the house. Many of these invisible speakers go into kitchens, living room and libraries (they work with wood paneling too). Then the customer may opt to have a dedicated space where we build them a theater. While we also cover the speakers with fabric there, the performance is still way up there.

---- I'm glad that you didn't take my post in a negative way.

Actually, I'm all in with the concept. You can create a natural ambiance in your own home,
where music and movies are more involving and less obtrusive (no gear and no speakers in sight).

And by using the proper materials and the right implementations (in-wall speakers), plus with the help of Room EQs on DSP chips, you can make the sweet listening spot everywhere. :b

No need to be glued in a vice-grip between two big speakers that are taking the spots of beautiful plants or sculptures, and with all that electronic gear (eyesore) flashing a multitude of stress inducted lights, like an industrial polluted disease (cancer).

We are so radically comformed to old principles that we are slave to them. ...And we don't evolve no more.

_______________

As a matter of fact, when I first read your thread, I already had those very similar concepts 'trotting' in my mind.
And that from already a while ago. So it is with great delight that I share with you what you are working on.

And for the vast majority of people; it is exactly what we all want.

You are an avant-gardiste Amir, and that makes you ahead of the curve.
And I'm glad to know you, and I feel I can always trust you.
You know technology, and people.

Thank you for sharing this article with us; because for me it helps at developing my own audio/visual concepts so that I can integrate better my plans and suggestions to my friends who are looking exactly for simplicity and happiness into their lives. :b

_______________

All our audio gear should simply and totally disappeared (in another room, or behind the walls or closets).
All our speakers also should completely disappeared; like in a professional and dedicated Home Theater 'cinema' room.
And our living rooms also shall be free of any superficial electronic gear and mechanical loudspeakers.
Our space should reflect the outside nature with lots of beautiful and small and large plants and flowers, plus beautiful paintings, sculptures, and furniture, without being condemned in our choices.

Only peace, comfort, and beautiful music should flow into the room's ambiance, without any restrictions whatsoever.
And the wife, the girlfriend(s), the children, the pets, all should be happy too in that space, in that environment where we spend a large part of our life on Earth. ...Even more so when we retire, and that our grandchildren come to visit with their parents (sons & daughters).

We want our dimensional space filled with love first, not with obtrusive material electronic equipment and speakers that cut the flow of love.
I'm all in, 100%.
 
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Bill Hart

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May 11, 2012
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I never liked the old modern design (plastic chairs and such). But these new ones are quite appealing.
Take a look at some of Neutra's work~ the Kaufmann house or the one in the Italian Lake District. His designs are 'old' but classic, clean and timeless.
Here's a link to the house in Italy: http://blog.gessato.com/2010/10/28/stunning-lake-maggiore-house-by-richard-neutra/

And, here's a link to the Kaufmann house. Kaufmann, a department store magnate from Pittsburgh, where I grew up, also commissioned another famous house. Fallingwater. By Frank Lloyd Wright. Guy had good taste.

http://takesunset.com/2010/05/the-kaufmann-house-a-look-back/
 

docvale

Well-Known Member
Mar 21, 2011
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Briarcliff Manor, NY
Interesting thread! :)

I agree with the concept of having a beautiful room as listening environment. I'd like to add something more: that listening room, as beautiful as it might be, should not be a cage lying isolated from the rest of the home, meaning that what I mostly don't like of many listening room (looking gorgeous from the audiophile point of you) is that they're one-man only isolation rooms.

I've never had a listening room, and, as I moved from Italy to NY, my system moved from my room to the living room (ok, the system is not the same... :p). In many perspective, having the system in the living room means sharing music with family and friends, as well as doing casual listening while doing something else.
To this goal, the system should not make the room ugly (and should not disappoint the wife... :eek:). Some pieces of gear, as stated in this thread, look actually good, though. I'd say that before recurring to micro-invisible speaker (which might carry some performance compromises), the audiophile husband should prioritize the task to hide cabling, then to minimize the visibility of the electronics (Salamander Design makes pretty cabinets). At that point, given a good room architecture, a pair of speakers could be tolerated :) and the pleasure of music shared within the house. So, no listening lounge chair, but listening sofa!

If failed, just go for B&O or, maybe, the newest Meridian M6 speakers (seen at the Roche Bobois store in NYC)...
 

LL21

Well-Known Member
Dec 26, 2010
14,411
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Interesting thread! :)

I agree with the concept of having a beautiful room as listening environment. I'd like to add something more: that listening room, as beautiful as it might be, should not be a cage lying isolated from the rest of the home, meaning that what I mostly don't like of many listening room (looking gorgeous from the audiophile point of you) is that they're one-man only isolation rooms.

I've never had a listening room, and, as I moved from Italy to NY, my system moved from my room to the living room (ok, the system is not the same... :p). In many perspective, having the system in the living room means sharing music with family and friends, as well as doing casual listening while doing something else.
To this goal, the system should not make the room ugly (and should not disappoint the wife... :eek:). Some pieces of gear, as stated in this thread, look actually good, though. I'd say that before recurring to micro-invisible speaker (which might carry some performance compromises), the audiophile husband should prioritize the task to hide cabling, then to minimize the visibility of the electronics (Salamander Design makes pretty cabinets). At that point, given a good room architecture, a pair of speakers could be tolerated :) and the pleasure of music shared within the house. So, no listening lounge chair, but listening sofa!

If failed, just go for B&O or, maybe, the newest Meridian M6 speakers (seen at the Roche Bobois store in NYC)...

Yep, thats been our choice as well. The 'System' as my wife likes to call it is on every nite and all weekend long from morning til we go to bed...the pets even know every nite to start walking to the bedroom as soon as i start switching off the system. kinda funny actually.

As such, it is in the living room, and it becomes a part of our living experience which we enjoy. And thus, i want it to be something everyone enjoys...which is also why no blues unless the wife has gone out to do something while i am at home working in the evenings or something. ;)
 

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