Schnerzinger cables - any experience?

andromedaaudio

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Taken from their website: Current Siltech cables use pure mono-crystal materials that are more expensive than multi- crystal copper, silver and gold. A simple look at the market price of metals and you will know why Siltech cables will never be heavily discounted. It might be more profitable to recycle the metal.



So siltech also uses mono crystal and i think crystal cables also , is there then finally a definitive technology developed by cable companies ???
or is the technologie still all over the place ???

From the website it looks like scherzinger invented superconductors at room temp instead of a couple degrees Kelvin :

The SCHNERZINGER® ATOMIC BONDING is a true breakthrough in the development of high end audio cables. The planning target was not - as usual in this line of business – merely a limited “optimization” of long or mono structures from OCC copper or silver (by means of special castings, alloying, cryogenically treatments, etc.), but a complete reformatting of the crystal structure.
This radical development approach was essential, because it takes the aim of an enclosed and most notably permanent stable structure, to have the ability to realize an almost absolutely pure pulse sequence und thus a practically lossless electrical information transmission.
The resulting SCHNERZINGER® MOLECULAR CONDUCTOR has a dramatically increased information density and thus a groundbreaking ability to completely preserve and passionately and vividly communicate the emotion and atmosphere of the recorded event to the listener. (for details see the Audition Report: LISTENING WITH MOLECULAR PROCESSING
 
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Tubedoctor

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Dec 12, 2012
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I compared the Siltech Empress Double Crown series G8 with the mono silver structure and the Queen series G7 and the Crystal Reference Diamond with the silver/gold structure.The Empress was definetly superior. I do not know if the mono crystal structure is the definitive technologie right now because i do not know what Schnerzinger does and i have not heard all products around the world, but in my comparisons the mono crystal cables (from silver and also copper) were superior to all cables with alloys and common 4N and 5N structure wires.The cost of mono crystal silver wires are not the big thing regarded to the price of those cables.
1 foot for an interconnect cable cost retail around 10$ and for an speaker cable around 40$.
 
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treitz3

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Hello, Tubedoctor. Would you, or perhaps could you post a picture or two of your system with the cables installed?

Tom
 

Tubedoctor

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Hello Tom.
This was a hard job form me. First, I broke my camera, than I had to ask a friend to come with his camera and after taking the pictures, we could not get them into the computer. But finally we made it!
On the photos you see my system, the Halcros, the Schnerzinger cables (with the interference field protection system connected) and the Power Innovator, the Schnerzinger Cleaner (connected to the preamp), my turntable the Brinkmann la Grange (with the tube supply) and my new cartridge the Clearaudio Goldfinger.
By the way I´m very happy with the Halcros especially with the Phono section of the preamp (extremely open with the very deep, dark, tuneful bottom end and with the interference field protection system connected the sound does not even come close to be too dry).
I would like to know if somebody has experience with the Thales or VIV tonearm playing with the Goldfinger and Brinkmann.

Kopie von DSC_0048.jpg
DSC_0042.jpg
Kopie von DSC_0069.jpg
 

treitz3

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Hello and thanks for posting the pics. What are the 2 connections coming from the input of the power cord and associated 4 white boxes seen in the pic provided below? How do they help the PC's?



Tom
 

AudioExplorations

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I am also very interested to know.

The interconects have these also. During my schnerzinger interconnect demo HJ plugged in various different 'modules' into these connections however they were small tubes only around 3cm in length.

HJ could you explain the functionality of these units? I understand they contain an active circuit of some kind?

Perhaps they have an effect on the cable shielding/interference as opposed to being part of the signal carrying wire. They look identical to what Shunyata are doing with their ?tron technology: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXwRTzJZ7Y0
 

Tubedoctor

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Those white boxes are parts of the Schnerzinger interference field protection system. They can be connected to one ( marked with number 3) of two plugs which are at each cable - power, speaker and interconnect. Despite this each cable has another plug (marked with number 1) at the beginning and at the end of each cable. This is for adjusting the Schnerzinger Noizguard System.

AudioExploration, before I bought the Schnerzinger Power Components i compared different power solutions. I also compared the new Shunyata Reference System and the Schnerzinger System. I informed myself about the differences of each technology. The Shunyata Etron technology reduces dielectric distortion within a signal wire by neutralizing the electric charge differential between the signal conductor and the insulating dielectric material. They make a connection with a shielding (which lies over the dielectric material) at each end with the conductor. Schnerzinger told me for that problem they have a technology called dielectric energizing which neutralizes the electric charge differential. Their system would work different because they do not want to influence the conductor by another electric component and that the Schnerzinger interference field protection system (Schnerzinger calls it Cleaner) and the Schnerzinger Noizguard system has nothing to do with the dielectric distortion.
Schnerzinger explained me that the Cable Cleaners like the Cleaner for the components would quasi suck Electrical Smog out of the cables and the Noizguard system would be for clearing electrical potentials in the audio system.

I can say those Schnerzinger systems really do dramatic improvements but it takes a little time to get used to the right installation of both systems and if not done right the sound even get worse. The Cleaners are brand new in my system and without the Cleaners the Schnerzinger stuff was already exceptional but after installing them they take me into another world of performance.
 

mep

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Schnerzinger explained me that the Cable Cleaners like the Cleaner for the components would quasi suck Electrical Smog out of the cables and the Noizguard system would be for clearing electrical potentials in the audio system.

Are those accepted electrical engineering terms? :)
 

Tubedoctor

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I just called Schnerzinger to get detailed information about their technologies.They told me that they do not want for some reason to go into details of their technologies, but they said that their dielectric energizing technology to solve the problem between the electric charge differential of the dielectric and the conductor would be total different from that by Shunyata published Etron technology and has also nothing to do like loading the shield with a battery.
Their Cleaner technology would have developed to clear the interference field in the cable and its outer surrounding and has nothing to do with the dielectric inside the cable.
For myself I would have wish more detailed information.

Further information are explained at their website. You find under Molecular Processing the link: cable facts. http://www.schnerzinger.com

You find there information what influences the sound (some points are very interesting) but they do not tell you the details of their solutions!
 
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Steve Williams

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Schnerzinger explained me that the Cable Cleaners like the Cleaner for the components would quasi suck Electrical Smog out of the cables and the Noizguard system would be for clearing electrical potentials in the audio system.


For myself I would have wish more detailed information.

My opinion........"caveat emptor"
 

microstrip

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My opinion........"caveat emptor"

For me what separates these Schnerzinger cables from other similar high-end products is the excessive dependence on the installer and the marketing / buying options. If you can rely on a good dealer, any high-end product should have some form of experiment of return/exchange possibility if you are not pleased with it.

I do not mind when people report some effect and acknowledge they are not able to explain clearly all the why's or just explain the basic aspects but add they will hide the implementation details, in order to protect their intellectual property. Also, I understand that for marketing purposes, manufacturers should have simple messages, and most of the time, marketing and science can not be close friends.

A simple analysis of the Schnerzinger System suggests that it depends strongly each time on the tuning carried by a single expert, to a point that the user has no control over the system. I can easily accept that their creator is a person with an extreme sensitivity to some aspects of audio reproduction, and manages to tune your system using his devices, but unhappily all the pseudo-science that has been quoted is just coffee talk. Again IMHO, some one buying these devices is paying mostly for the expertise of the person who tunes the system, not just for the cables or cleaners.

Unhappily Shunyata gets involved in this cable debate. There is at less one large difference between these brands - it is possible to try and return Shunyata cables in our systems without having Caelin Gabriel waiting for the pay check in your front door.

Just to end, I easily accept that those who have the Schnerzinger cables had great improvements in their systems, but I feel uncomfortable with their sales methodology.
 

Tubedoctor

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For me i also would like to know more details of the products. But in the HIFI scene I already got used to a kind of explanations or illustrations from the companies which are at the end nice sounding words of marketing but do say nothing at all

For example:
Shunyata shows a drawing of the etron technology on their website by adding: “The electric field compensation circuit (EFCC) is connected to the signal conductor 101 with other end of the EFCC connected to the conductive shield 103. At the other end of the wire, the signal wire 108 is connected to the EFCC 110 with the other end of the EFCC connected to the shield 106”. But the important and hidden thing behind etron is what are the EFCC 110 and EFCC 109 and what are they doing. Just to connect a shielding with the conductor is not new.

Transparent cables explain:” Transparent carefully matches the passive network components and meticulously calibrates Reference MM2 networks to suit the characteristics of specific associated system components.” Nice word but do not explain what they are doing.

Siltech explain their zero ohm technology that a high speed filter is build in ensuring perfect phase… nice words too ok, but how does it works!

MIT cables has it interface boxes and says: An audio interface is an engineered component that is purposefully designed to efficiently transport energy, with a predetermined bandwidth, from one component to another. But how does this technology works?

NBS cables says: Every NBS cable employs the circuitry of a Passive Frequency Inductance Network (PFIN) combined with hand-made construction and unconventional use of silver shielding. But how does it work?

For me this kind of advertising is ok because I think that often good and new ideas especially in the Hifi scene are copied. Do not get me wrong I do not like those hyper technology words for just a small technical discovery. But I think that small discoveries which are easily be able to be copied can give a product at the reference level a big advantage in the very, very sensitive High-End market. So I can understand the reserve of giving details.

The concerns to the way of the distribution of Schnerzinger I think it is may not be perfect but myself liked to be visited by Mr. Bremer because beside showing his products he showed me weak points in my system which I never had thought of and which had nothing to do with his products. (But I still do think I would be better for the customer if he could leave his products for longer.)
For me it speaks for the product that Schnerzinger do make in home demos without charging, also when not buying them. And after buying they have a fair upgrade and update service.

In the case of Schnerzinger I think there is a misunderstanding because you really do not have to be an expert to install the Cleaner and Noizguard systems correctly, because each connection directly shows if it is right or wrong. The only thing is that it takes a while to try each possible connection. An already expert will only do it in a shorter time. A danger may be start playing with it!

Do not get me wrong I do not feel personally attacked but for me Schnerzinger makes exceptional products and I do not think it is good and fair to analyze a products technique without having own experience with it. I remember in the 80`s when I bought myself a DMA 80 amplifier from an unknown company called Spectral. All my Hifi friends laughed at me before hearing it, because it was as same expensive as the big and heavy Krells and Thresholds but very light and small. To Spectrals main goal a great bandwith the people told me you do not hear those frequencies at all. After hearing it they stopped laughing and now Spectral is one of the respected leading companies.
 
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ack

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You have to at least read the cable patents, where they exist, to explain the manufacturers' claims. In the case of Shunyata and MIT, in my mind they check out, at least theoretically; and you still don't know what you might be giving up to gain what they claim.
 

FrantzM

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Tubedoctor

You are certainly a convinced and happy customer. That is all that counts for you. I find the explanations flimsy at best and this pegs my suspicion meter.
I for one would not go their route, my position on cables is scarcely a secret in here. I suppose they are far from inexpensive. IMHO money is better spent elsewhere: Dedicated Room with Acoustic Treatments and another era which despite my strong objectivists leaning I find necessary: Power Quality. I would not spend 20K on any cable system but would easily spend twice on serious Telco Grade Double Conversion power system and 4-wire electric distribution. That's me. YMMV.
 

mep

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Tubedoctor

You are certainly a convinced and happy customer. That is all that counts for you. I find the explanations flimsy at best and this pegs my suspicion meter.

Frantz-Is this the PC way of saying it pegs your bovine excreta meter? I think that micro summed it up pretty well. With most top-end cable companies, you can get a "try before you buy" opportunity or at least return privileges in case you don't like them. I find that better than a company guru with expert ears showing up at your door with a boatload of gear and then making changes to your system and handing you a bill for what you will have to pay if you want their cable loom.
 

AudioExplorations

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Guys, completely agree on the sales method employed, I am not a fan.

To the wbf regulars: noted that everyone is suspicious (rightfully so in this industry).

Obviously schnerzinger is a company with a product they are trying to sell and will do anything it takes including making up elaborate stories.

What if, for a sec, these methods were a valid way to improve the performance of an audio cable. What if the charge on the shield influenced the signal on the cable and an active circuit dealt with this effectively? What if optimized conductor grain structure has a big impact on the way audio is transmitted? After all for all of us at this level it's about a few % improvement anywhere we can get it.

I still haven't heard any solid facts saying the methods described are unsound. Just that it doesn't 'seem' right, so beware.

Can we perhaps focus the discussion on how the technologies have potential to work instead of just stating personal disagreement with the validity of various claims. It's not turning into a very interesting thread this way. Let's see some facts that show the contrary.
 

FrantzM

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That is the crux of the matter: We still don't know a thing about the "Technologies', noted my quotes. OTOH, We know a lot about the sale protocols

. And what is really "sound" about this approach?
 

microstrip

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(...) IMHO money is better spent elsewhere: Dedicated Room with Acoustic Treatments and another era which despite my strong objectivists leaning I find necessary: Power Quality. I would not spend 20K on any cable system but would easily spend twice on serious Telco Grade Double Conversion power system and 4-wire electric distribution. That's me. YMMV.


Frantz,

Why would you spend 40K on a power system? Devices should be made to run with normal mains and a good ground connection. What is the miraculous property of 40K mains? Did you forget the smile?
 

microstrip

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One additional problem I face with the Schnerzinger cables is the lack of an existing open showroom - a place where you could listen to a demo, go home, think again and decide if you want a home test.
 

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