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Thread: Balanced XLR cables/Long Run/Audiophile Grade - but not priced as such

  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by merrillaudio View Post
    Would you be willing to test the Speaker cable I have which uses Mogami coax cables, Cardas billet Spades Rhodium plated and cold welding? Instead of the 4 wire, it is 14 AWG co-ax, dual runs that is the equivalent of 11 AWG. Using dual runs will double the capacitance and 1/2 the inductance plus some other effects of the dual runs. Having lower inductance should theoretically improve the bass while the higher capacitance will roll off the highs but that roll off point is dependent on the system amp and speaker impedance and should be well above the 20 khz. I have ESL's so the lower inductance really helps and it will be good to see it on other speakers, especially since you are doing the comparisons right now. If interested send me a PM.
    Hello Mr. Merrill,

    I appreciate the offer of testing out your cables.

    I was looking into the Mogami cables you describe above which I believe are the MOGAMI #3082 series based on your description. In comparing the specs of the 3082 verses the 3104 Quad that I am using now for speaker cables I am seeing (as you mentioned) a big difference in Capacitance between the two but very little difference in Inductance.

    The #3082 does certainly have an advantage with a slightly lower Inductance but I wonder if the trade off would be worth it considering the major Capacitance difference between the the two wires? It seems like having a great deal more Capacitance (potential rolling off of high freq) and what also looks like a higher resistance value when compared to the #3104 is more of a negative strike against the #3082 as a whole. Thoughts?

    Listed below is the comparision I was able to dig up>

    Mogami #3104

    Capacitance:

    Wires 1-2 @ 1Khz
    99pF/m
    (30.2pF/Ft)

    Wires 1-3 @ 1kHz
    78pF/m
    (23.8pF/Ft)

    Inductance Wires 1-4 @ 1kHZ
    0.6ÁH/m(0.18ÁH/Ft)

    DC Resistance
    0.005Ω/m(0.0015Ω/Ft)


    MOGAMI #3082

    Capacitance at 1kHz
    253pF/m(77pF/Ft)

    Inductance @ 1kHz
    0.4ÁH/m(0.12ÁH/Ft)

    DC Resistance
    0.009Ω/m(0.0027Ω/Ft)

  2. #42
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    I would take the lower C and R of the 3104 over the slightly lower L of the 3082.
    Don Herman
    "After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley

  3. #43
    Member merrillaudio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cjf View Post
    Hello Mr. Merrill,

    I appreciate the offer of testing out your cables.

    I was looking into the Mogami cables you describe above which I believe are the MOGAMI #3082 series based on your description. In comparing the specs of the 3082 verses the 3104 Quad that I am using now for speaker cables I am seeing (as you mentioned) a big difference in Capacitance between the two but very little difference in Inductance.

    The #3082 does certainly have an advantage with a slightly lower Inductance but I wonder if the trade off would be worth it considering the major Capacitance difference between the the two wires? It seems like having a great deal more Capacitance (potential rolling off of high freq) and what also looks like a higher resistance value when compared to the #3104 is more of a negative strike against the #3082 as a whole. Thoughts?

    Listed below is the comparision I was able to dig up>

    Mogami #3104

    Capacitance:

    Wires 1-2 @ 1Khz
    99pF/m
    (30.2pF/Ft)

    Wires 1-3 @ 1kHz
    78pF/m
    (23.8pF/Ft)

    Inductance Wires 1-4 @ 1kHZ
    0.6ÁH/m(0.18ÁH/Ft)

    DC Resistance
    0.005Ω/m(0.0015Ω/Ft)


    MOGAMI #3082

    Capacitance at 1kHz
    253pF/m(77pF/Ft)

    Inductance @ 1kHz
    0.4ÁH/m(0.12ÁH/Ft)

    DC Resistance
    0.009Ω/m(0.0027Ω/Ft)
    You did very good homework on the cables. There are many thoughts on this. Here is mine.
    Using a simplistic corner frequency calculation, the Fc with 900pf, 8 ohms is 22Khz. fc = 1/(2*pi*R*C). Hence high frequency roll off on these quality cables are not an issue, at least for me with 5-8 ft speaker cables. At 10 feet, the capacitance is 770pf and the impedance is much less then 8 ohms at high frequencies, so a much higher corner or cut-off frequency, well outside the audio range.

    The inductance affects the speed and rise time of the bass. With these quality Mogami cables (very low capacitance relatively), the speed of the transients is of bigger concern for me. Additionally, I have ESL's where inductance has an even greater impact on the speed. My cross over point is 175Hz. How large an impact will this have, that now goes back to personal taste.
    For the tube person, that is a non-issue, since tube amps are slower to begin with. The output impedance of the tube amp is much higher and also affects damping factors etc. So that is a entirely difference conversation.

    Finally I keep my speaker cables as short as possible and the interconnects long (fully balanced system). Shorter Speaker cables have better performance characteristics all around.

    Do note that while the W3082 has only 1 capacitance, the W3104 has 2 capacitances given and 3 non-consistent interactions in the cable run with the 4 wires "loosely" wound.

    My conclusion, which may be different from many others, is that with good, short speaker cables (less then 10 feet), the joints are more of a factor to the sound quality than the capacitance. Hence my cold welding instead of crimp or solder. The choice for lower inductance is to get faster speed to the speaker, and my choice for this is only because my amps have these characteristics - speed and detail, which I am sure many other amps have this as well, but that is driving my decision to go with the coax speaker cable. Do I want to spend $20k on Speaker Cables to get this and the lowest possible capacitance? Definitely not, for me at least. My kids are not chubby so I still need to feed them daily.

    Hence my thought on doing an independent comparison or at least a comparison to see if there is a noticeable bass or high frequency roll off and which has better detail coming through.

    Please let me know what your thoughts are on this. Thank you.
    Merrill Wettasinghe
    Chief Music Officer, Merrill Audio Advanced Technology Labs, LLC
    www.MerrillAudio.net

  4. #44
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    We seem to have drifted from balanced analog XLR cables to speaker cables.
    Back to balanced cables, the most important cable factor is symmetry. Symmetry of the signal wires to each other and to the shield.
    Now in speaker cables, the cable's self inductance only affect's the very highest frequencies. The speaker cable's capacitance only affect's the amplifier's ability to remane happy as an amplifier and not turn into an oscillator.

  5. #45
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    Uh, I think that is all true of interconnects as well...
    Don Herman
    "After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley

  6. #46
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    The competing brand to Mogami microphone cables is Canare Quad Star. I use them with excellent results. They are Pro quality and inexpensive compared to "audiophile" XLR cables.

    http://www.markertek.com/Cables/Audi...SC100XXJ.xhtml

  7. #47
    Addicted to Best! Lee's Avatar
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    Black Cat has announced a balanced option for Lectraline called Xe coming soon. Could be the ticket.
    Contributor, The High Fidelity Report
    Contributor, Headphone.guru

    Source: Sony SCD-777ES, VPi Scoutmaster with Lyra Argo(i), Mac Mini with Benchmark DAC1 Pre Amplification: Audio Researck Ref 3 and Audio Research VT100, Modwright SWP9.0SE Speakers: Magnepan 1.7s Cables: Black Cat Lectraline Power Conditioning: 10 gauge Romex dedicated line, Oyaide GX+ outlet, Shunyata PS8 with Defender and a variety of Black Mamba and Venom power cords Recording: AKG 414 BULS mics, Sound Devices 722

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