the NHB-458's are here

Roysen · Nov 9, 2014

I would certinaly say that the darTZeel NHB-458 is among the ten to fifteen best solid state amplifiers in the world. I am giving myself some slack here because this business has no absolute truths and people tend to like so different things. I will however think that when stating that the NHB-458 is among the ten to fifteen best solid state amplifiers in the world I would be safely within any sceptics limit and hit the mark quite safely. I would also like to add that I am not just a little bit envious of Mike's ownership of these amplifiers, but I also hope to be able to own a pair quite soon to be able to drive my Magico Q7 with my Dynaudio Arbiter amplifiers.

I think the greatness of the NHB-458 is in its musicality more than in its technical details even though they are quite impressive too. This is also evidence of the genious of its designer Herve Deletraz. To me it is a much greather acheivement to build an amplifier who can play music like the NHB-458 than to build and amplifier with infinitely low distortion, infinitely wide bandwidth, infinitely high output power and infinitely high rise time. It shows that the designer not only has control of the technical parameters of his design but also of how they influence the way the product reproduce music.

Since darTZeel is not a company resting on its laurels I know they are working tirelessly to constantly improve their designs. I do however think that there will be a while before the NHB-458 will be replaced with something better. That is also part of why I would consider it safe to invest my money into their products. I am not a big fan of the companies that replace their statement products at every CES show.

If there is one think I whish would improve it would be the production time for a pair of these beauties. It is actually the only thing keepoing me from placing an order at the moment. I hope that will improve over time, but I guess that in the end it is a small price to pay when you are waiting for something as great as these amplifiers.

Mike Lavigne · Nov 9, 2014

Roysen said:
I would certinaly say that the darTZeel NHB-458 is among the ten to fifteen best solid state amplifiers in the world. I am giving myself some slack here because this business has no absolute truths and people tend to like so different things. I will however think that when stating that the NHB-458 is among the ten to fifteen best solid state amplifiers in the world I would be safely within any sceptics limit and hit the mark quite safely. I would also like to add that I am not just a little bit envious of Mike's ownership of these amplifiers, but I also hope to be able to own a pair quite soon to be able to drive my Magico Q7 with my Dynaudio Arbiter amplifiers.

I think the greatness of the NHB-458 is in its musicality more than in its technical details even though they are quite impressive too. This is also evidence of the genious of its designer Herve Deletraz. To me it is a much greather acheivement to build an amplifier who can play music like the NHB-458 than to build and amplifier with infinitely low distortion, infinitely wide bandwidth, infinitely high output power and infinitely high rise time. It shows that the designer not only has control of the technical parameters of his design but also of how they influence the way the product reproduce music.

Since darTZeel is not a company resting on its laurels I know they are working tirelessly to constantly improve their designs. I do however think that there will be a while before the NHB-458 will be replaced with something better. That is also part of why I would consider it safe to invest my money into their products. I am not a big fan of the companies that replace their statement products at every CES show.

If there is one think I whish would improve it would be the production time for a pair of these beauties. It is actually the only thing keepoing me from placing an order at the moment. I hope that will improve over time, but I guess that in the end it is a small price to pay when you are waiting for something as great as these amplifiers.

I know that even Herve gets frustrated by the significant demand compared to supply for the 458's as he likes to have a pair for his own use. but with as much effort and resources as each one takes to build he is always allowing his customers to enjoy them instead of himself. the demand for the 458's has far exceeded anything he ever imagined. maybe he might have cut a few build corners if he knew he had to build so many.....or maybe not as it's not his way.

would we want to press a button and have all the Ferrari's that the market could absorb?.......or maybe a few less than demand asks?

it was about an 8 month wait for me 2 years ago.....and I'm told my wait was quite short. I don't know the current time.

I can tell you that I consider myself lucky to be able to enjoy them every day and never take them for granted.

and so true that people tend to like different things.

Mike Lavigne · Nov 9, 2014

FrantzM said:
Hi

have not yet heard the 458 but I notice a few things about your findings:

Your Preamp is 8 years old and still a TOL and still a SOTA.
the 108 is as old if not older. they remain among the best amps around
Thus the 458 will likely last a very long time too..

There exist a few brands that do not come out with the new flavor of the month component while producing real SOTA for the ages: Burmester, FM Acoustics, Boulder, Dar Tzeel to name these few . Their designs simply last a long time . This is the kind of brand I am willing to invest into.

I am sure you will keep your Dartz for a few more years. There might be subtle incremental improvements from the manufacturer but nothing in their opinions worthy of a new model name .. That is value, that is true performance IMO.. Compare this to the endless "new" models , ARC introduces every other week ....

I could not say it better......

microstrip · Nov 9, 2014

FrantzM said:
Hi

have not yet heard the 458 but I notice a few things about your findings:

Your Preamp is 8 years old and still a TOL and still a SOTA.
the 108 is as old if not older. they remain among the best amps around
Thus the 458 will likely last a very long time too..

There exist a few brands that do not come out with the new flavor of the month component while producing real SOTA for the ages: Burmester, FM Acoustics, Boulder, Dar Tzeel to name these few . Their designs simply last a long time . This is the kind of brand I am willing to invest into.

I am sure you will keep your Dartz for a few more years. There might be subtle incremental improvements from the manufacturer but nothing in their opinions worthy of a new model name .. That is value, that is true performance IMO.. Compare this to the endless "new" models , ARC introduces every other week ....

I would like to add a few points ...

Both the NH108 power amplifier and the NHB18NS have received significant improvements along their life. I have owned both versions of the 108 and still own the latest SMTP 108. The difference between versions was not a "subtle incremental improvement" at all And although there were several revisions of the NH18 preamplifier it is now dated and IMHO is clearly surpassed by more recent designs of other companies - it is why a new preamplifier is coming. And although I love DartZeel, I consider that ARC represents much better value for money. Surely YMMV.

Some brands keep models, but upgrade them significantly along their life. If we are not sensitive to the their improvements and just look at the model labels we can be happy for a long time stating you have the current model.

BTW, the latest ARC Galileo range sounds really good - and looks much better in place than in the pictures.

FrantzM · Nov 10, 2014

microstrip

WIth those aforementioned brands (there may be others) the models remain the same and you can jump from one to the other without a forklift upgrade. While a person may likely prefer the new model the "old" swill still sound magnificent. An example you can go from the Burmester 911 MKi that was released in 1991 to the current 911 mark (whatever) or from the 808 MK 1 preamp released in 1980 (!!!!!!!!) to the current 808 Mk 5 .. Very few brands do that. Most come up with a variation on the theme , give it a new name and more brutal price. ARC is the expert in this mode of operation. Their Galileo may sound good, I will bet my hard earned money that within the next year they will come with a Copernicus or something or a Gal.III. That is in their DNA , they have done that through the years. Of course the aficionados will claim day and night .. we all know these are different flavors.

microstrip · Nov 10, 2014

FrantzM said:
microstrip

WIth those aforementioned brands (there may be others) the models remain the same and you can jump from one to the other without a forklift upgrade. While a person may likely prefer the new model the "old" swill still sound magnificent. An example you can go from the Burmester 911 MKi that was released in 1991 to the current 911 mark (whatever) or from the 808 MK 1 preamp released in 1980 (!!!!!!!!) to the current 808 Mk 5 .. Very few brands do that. Most come up with a variation on the theme , give it a new name and more brutal price. ARC is the expert in this mode of operation. Their Galileo may sound good, I will bet my hard earned money that within the next year they will come with a Copernicus or something or a Gal.III. That is in their DNA , they have done that through the years. Of course the aficionados will claim day and night .. we all know these are different flavors.

Your 808 example illustrates my point. There is a large sound difference between versions - although Burmester is not my cup of tea, I listened to the mk1 and mkV.
This shows in the used prices in Germany - the mk1 can be bought at almost one teenth of the price of the used mkV. A few years ago I was offered an used 911 mk2 amplifier at what seemed a very nice price, but after I contacted the factory and distributor it was seen that I could get an used mk3 at a much better price and a new one for a little less.

BTW, a good condition ARC SP 10 sells here for twice the price of an used 808mk1.

And happily most of us appreciate the flavors properly and enjoy mixing them...

Roysen · Nov 12, 2014

Hi Mike,

I am curious about the Durand Telos Sapphire. Is it made only for your turntable or can it be ordered for any turntable?

Is there somewhere I can read about your complete current setup including cables, power, turntables, tonearms and cartridges?

All the best,
Roy

Mike Lavigne · Nov 12, 2014

Roysen said:
Hi Mike,

I am curious about the Durand Telos Sapphire. Is it made only for your turntable or can it be ordered for any turntable?

Is there somewhere I can read about your complete current setup including cables, power, turntables, tonearms and cartridges?

All the best,
Roy

my system.

the system is described there.

I've not updated that system information with the newest complete Sapphire Telos info, but you can read the details about that here .

the Telos Sapphire can be put on any tt accommodating a 12" arm and the weight of it.....the base is massive. it can challenge some cantilevered armboards. You would need to contact Durand Tonearms to find out ordering information. at the point I first got it I had the only one but my understanding was there were orders for others too.

obviously the new dart preamp which should arrive in the next month or so is not yet in my pictures but I talk about that here and over the following pages in that thread.

I use to have multiple tt's (3-4), multiple cartridges (6-7), multiple arms (5-6) (still have 2 arms and cartridges, one stereo and one mono), multiple RTR decks (5-6....still have 2, one 1/4" and one 1/2"), lots of multiple.

I had to choose one of everything to go all-in for the 458's and MM7's.....and stay married and be able to retire someday (soon?). no regrets. at this stage of things I don't spend time or mental energy on 'the next piece of gear'.

Kingsrule · Apr 28, 2015

All

Any updates coming to the 458's that anyone knows about? They have been around for 3+ years.......

Mike Lavigne · Apr 28, 2015

Kingsrule said:
All

Any updates coming to the 458's that anyone knows about? They have been around for 3+ years.......

no. not that I am aware of. it's hard to imagine how they could make it better as a sit here listening.

I know the 458's are back ordered right now at least 6 months. and all their attention is on getting the new 'danalog' integrated dac-pre and the new 18NS full feature preamp (I've been waiting for a year for mine) into production and relieve the huge backlog for those products.

asiufy · Apr 28, 2015

Seems Hervé is also working to clear some of that backlog of 458s, as he posted a pic on Facebook the other day of a bunch of 458 front panels!

alexandre

Scott W · Apr 28, 2015

My pair are shipping tomorrow

Mike Lavigne · Apr 28, 2015

Scott W said:
My pair are shipping tomorrow

congrats and welcome to the club!!!!

Scott W · Apr 28, 2015

Thank you Mike. As you know I have waited awhile for these

Dartzeel owners have to have allot of patience

Mike Lavigne · Apr 28, 2015

Scott W said:
Thank you Mike. As you know I have waited awhile for these

in 2012 I waited 8 months for my 458's. it was worth it and then some. so enjoy.

Dartzeel owners have to have allot of patience

you are preaching to the choir. my preamp was originally scheduled to be delivered late last September. we thought it was imminent around then and I paid for it in full in September. what I wasn't told was which September.

it does help that I've recently broken thru in system performance so I can't say I have much to complain about. but I still want the preamp to get here....

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