Benz LP: Replace stylus, Update to LP-S, Or Something Different?

Grooves

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Feb 29, 2012
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Recently I had the good fortune of being able to update from a Michell Orbe to a TW Raven Two. Even with a poor isolation set-up (still thinking about what I want to do) it really changed things around. Gone are many of the HF nasties I used to have and now I can hear many things on an LP I had not in the past w/o my ears bleeding. It really allowed my Graham 2.2/Benz LP to show themselves. For example, I now routinely run the Benz at 47K ohms where before it would be at 500 ohms. I have many theories on why this is but... another time.

But my Benz LP has many hours on it (too many) and is due for an update. So, do I have the stylus replaced or simply move up to the Benz LP-S? I realize the LP-S at 16.7g is above the G-2's max. at 15g. but I have a extra add-on weight (for a total of 2) for the arm which would give it and added 34g. of extra weight. If this does not work I could probably find a way to add a bit more weight.:eek:

I have always used/needed a Benz but now because my TT seems to have altered the soundscape I am contemplating trying a new brand of cartridge. I am looking for a cart. with a bit more top end resolution and air w/o being too "hot" on top. I can manage some alterations of the system by changing tubes in the phono, but there are limits to this. I have read that many like the new LP-S, but wonder "is there something better" of similar cost ($3K to upgrade from a LP to a LP-S)? I like the Benz LP for its great musicality, but wonder what others may have done who have have/had a Benz LP or LP-S.
I would still default to the warmer side of neutral, but maybe not as warm as a Benz, just seduction with a bit more resolution and air. Any suggestions??
 

jazdoc

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Aug 7, 2010
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I've compared the Benz LP to the Benz LPS with microridge stylus (which I own). The LPS is not an evolutionary advancement from the LP; it should be considered a completely different, heavier and much better cartridge. The LPS has greater frequency extension, dynamics and tone color when compared to the LP.

I've been comparing my LPS and Dynavector XV1-s recently and would say the the XV1-s is more resolving on the top end (but can be strident if not properly dialed in) but the LPS is more 'liquid' sounding. The LPS is slightly lusher in the midrange and has more tone color in the bass but the XV1-s' bass is better defined. To analogize; the LPS is slightly 'tubey' while the XV1-s is slightly solid state...both are very close to perfectly neutral. The LPS and A90 are more forgiving as far as set up. More than any cartridge I'm familiar with (with the possible exception of Colibris), the Dynavector rewards a spot on set up.

I'm familiar with the Ortofon A90 which IMO, lies somewhere along the continuum between the LPS and XV1-s with more delicate treble than either. I've also compared to the Clearaudio DaVinci v2 which has the biggest sound stage and has a more delicate, diaphanous quality.

Which of the above do I prefer? Well, I'm an audiophile, so I want the best of each one :D. For me, the jump from the LP to the LPS is a no brainer...provided it's a good match to your system and tastes. The choice between the LPS, XV1-s, Da Vinci and A90 is wholly system and taste dependent.

I will be interested to read about other experiences.

Good luck!
 
Last edited:

XV-1

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May 24, 2010
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Dynavctor XV-1s would fit your criteria perfectly.
 

dafos

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Sep 17, 2010
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I've done a direct comparison between the Lp and LPs. No contest, upgrade to the LPs, you won't regret it.
 

Grooves

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Feb 29, 2012
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Since my phono is fixed at 57.5 dB I probably won't want to dip below .34 mV. The A90 is intriguing but I think the .27 mV would be a bit low.
If I decide to stay wit the Benz do you think I can get away with simply adding a second add-on counter weight so as to tolerate the 16.7g LP-S?
 

TBone

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Nov 15, 2012
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I've compared the Benz LP to the Benz LPS with microridge stylus (which I own). The LPS is not an evolutionary advancement from the LP; it should be considered a completely different, heavier and much better cartridge. The LPS has greater frequency extension, dynamics and tone color when compared to the LP.

Perhaps, but as far as I'm concerned any improvement with the LPS isn't stylus related.

I've been comparing my LPS and Dynavector XV1-s recently and would say the the XV1-s is more resolving on the top end (but can be strident if not properly dialed in) but the LPS is more 'liquid' sounding. The LPS is slightly lusher in the midrange and has more tone color in the bass but the XV1-s' bass is better defined. To analogize; the LPS is slightly 'tubey' while the XV1-s is slightly solid state...both are very close to perfectly neutral.

I find little in audio to be "perfectly" neutral, and I'm not even certain I want "perfectly" neutral.

In terms of Dyna being more "SS", I agree, since I've yet to hear any Dyna which I'd truly considered 3 dimensional. And, as nice as they are, like much SS, I still find they delineate width & height much better than depth, and like many "sand" amps, I also find them a bit grainy. Perhaps it's more the sound of their mount, but ...

I generally find Benz more consistently "liquid" despite the mount, although certainly not Transfiguration type liquidity (which reminds me so much of Ayre), Benz have a unique sound all their own, superb diction with voice, they build music from the ground up, in layers, however their frequency extension capability is the key(*) to their success, they need to be dialed or focused in, always warm ... much in line with tube analogy.

The LPS and A90 are more forgiving as far as set up. More than any cartridge I'm familiar with (with the possible exception of Colibris), the Dynavector rewards a spot on set up.

(*) Perhaps the Micro-Ridge stylus is more forgiving, but I'm a little surprised that the A90 would be as "forgiving" based on it's replicant 100 stylus. In fact, any Benz which used the FG5/120 dynascan stylus required a VERY precise SRA setup. Its truly a matter of achieving superior focus, especially at the frequency extremes, in which I truly believe that many FG stylus based carts demand a very exact & precise SRA.

tb1
 

mep

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
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TBone-Can you share with us what gear you are listening to in your system?
 

TBone

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Nov 15, 2012
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TBone-Can you share with us what gear you are listening to in your system?

Certainly, I will update my system profile soon.

It's no secret, listed on other popular audio sites for decades.

tb1
 

Mendel

Well-Known Member
Feb 13, 2012
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GTA
Recently I had the good fortune of being able to update from a Michell Orbe to a TW Raven Two. Even with a poor isolation set-up (still thinking about what I want to do) it really changed things around. Gone are many of the HF nasties I used to have and now I can hear many things on an LP I had not in the past w/o my ears bleeding. It really allowed my Graham 2.2/Benz LP to show themselves. For example, I now routinely run the Benz at 47K ohms where before it would be at 500 ohms. I have many theories on why this is but... another time.

But my Benz LP has many hours on it (too many) and is due for an update. So, do I have the stylus replaced or simply move up to the Benz LP-S? I realize the LP-S at 16.7g is above the G-2's max. at 15g. but I have a extra add-on weight (for a total of 2) for the arm which would give it and added 34g. of extra weight. If this does not work I could probably find a way to add a bit more weight.:eek:

I have always used/needed a Benz but now because my TT seems to have altered the soundscape I am contemplating trying a new brand of cartridge. I am looking for a cart. with a bit more top end resolution and air w/o being too "hot" on top. I can manage some alterations of the system by changing tubes in the phono, but there are limits to this. I have read that many like the new LP-S, but wonder "is there something better" of similar cost ($3K to upgrade from a LP to a LP-S)? I like the Benz LP for its great musicality, but wonder what others may have done who have have/had a Benz LP or LP-S.
I would still default to the warmer side of neutral, but maybe not as warm as a Benz, just seduction with a bit more resolution and air. Any suggestions??

If your "ears bleed" and you had "HF nasties" then you either did not have your table set up properly or there was another problem in your system.
I run a J.A. Micheel Orbe with a tecnoarm and Benz woodbody at 47k ohms. I have no HF nasties--if anything I find the sound smooth. rich and maybe a touch overdamped. Pretty much the opposite of what you describe.
While I am sure the Raven is a fine turntable (as it should be for $7500 sans arm) I do not see the point of trashing another fine product just because you like your new toy better.
If the Orbe made your ears bleed, why did you buy it in the first place?
 

Grooves

Well-Known Member
Feb 29, 2012
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Pacific Northwest
I realize this post is a few weeks old but I will respond anyway.
What causes my HF nasties is probably room related. I doubt it has anything strictly to do with my Orbe other than to say if for some reason there is something being added, even ever so slightly, my room will accentuate it. I've had similar issues with previous systems, except for one, and unfortunately altering the living room ain't really an option.
Outside of my preamp, everthing has been changed. And, things have improved with every system improvement. But, taming HF's sometimes is a challenge. It would be much easier if it were the other way around. My preamp can be a bit revealing and has a rep. for showing up poor recordings. I doubt my Orbe is an issue. Probably no more so than the LP12 it replaced, though it is a better TT than the LP12 in my estimation. It wouldn't have mattered one way or the other what a TT sounded like outside my room cause inside the room it's a different story. Actually, I did hear a Orbe with a Graham 1.5. It bettered mine in some regards but again it was in a different room. To make a point, I sold my Ruby 2 to a friend who's room has a great HF character. My Ruby 2 sounded really good, much better than in my room. At that point I realized "room" acoustics were probably the biggest cause of my woes. But, the Benz LP was much better sounding in my set up vs the Ruby 2. What can I say? It is what it is, and all I can do is learn how to work with it or around it.
 

Mendel

Well-Known Member
Feb 13, 2012
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I would have your LP retipped by Soundsmith (if you still have it). I had my M2 woodbody redone with the top of the line line contact stylus and it sounds better than it ever did new. For $350 plus shipping it is a no brainer. Even if you decide to try something else it will make a fine back-up cartridge. It may even force your new cartridge into a back-up role when you hear it.
 

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