Is this a true statement about the audio Industry

Bill Hart · Nov 1, 2012

I just don't see this as a business to make Big money. Telecom 20 or 30 years ago- check; Internet start ups with a good business model, like Amazon, or E-bay. Check. Selling expensive audio components to a fickle market in uncertain economic times, with price pressure, a diminishing clientele and a niche market at best- not the way to riches.
Not trying to justify extravagant pricing or bogus marketing claims.
The biggest customer of the Ferrari dealership I used to frequent owned a garbage company. Just sayin'. And, FWIW, you can own a Ferrari (say a 328 or even a 360, let alone the unloved 4 seaters) for less than a blinged out SUV or pick up truck.

puroagave · Nov 1, 2012

Robert Harley's editorial in newest TAS sort of speaks to this referring to "hedonistic adaptation." Personally i can make due with much cheaper gear than many of you and lesser gear trhan i already own, but dont touch my music collection!

im not a candidate for a $100,000 amp, even at 75% off. i'd question how important sound reproduction is to me at that point and yes the money has a lot to do with it - i hate loosing money! if we're talking a patek perpetual calendar i see it as an investment and even though it "just tells time" it holds value and can appreciate.

Bill Hart · Nov 1, 2012

puroagave said:
Robert Harley's editorial in newest TAS sort of speaks to this referring to "hedonistic adaptation." Personally i can make due with much cheaper gear than many of you and lesser gear trhan i already own, but dont touch my music collection!

im not a candidate for a $100,000 amp, even at 75% off. i'd question how important sound reproduction is to me at that point and yes the money has a lot to do with it - i hate loosing money! if we're talking a patek perpetual calendar i see it as an investment and even though it "just tells time" it holds value and can appreciate.

Rob- this goes back to the point i was making in Tater's thread. Most hi fi doesn't hold value in the same way that a lot of other lux goods do. The Patek is a good example.

puroagave · Nov 1, 2012

whart said:
you can own a Ferrari (say a 328 or even a 430, let alone the unloved 4 seaters, for less than a blinged out SUV or pick up truck).

i wouldnt touch a mondial with your ten foot pole

im liking the early fiberglass bodied, carbureted 308 GTBs, still cheap and kinda rare. one day might surpass the dino for collectabilty.

Bill Hart · Nov 1, 2012

puroagave said:
i wouldnt touch a mondial with your ten foot pole im liking the early fiberglass bodied, carbureted 308 GTBs, still cheap and kinda rare. one day might surpass the dino for collectabilty.

Rob~ you know the story. Glass 308 is very cool. My friend has a turbo 208 in Italy, that's also rare, it's the only one i've ever seen. I still love the looks of the Dino though, but the prices seem to have skyrocketed for restored flares and chairs (real ones). PS I changed my original post to 328 or 360, I'm surprised what 430's are still asking. I never loved any of the late cars.
PPS on 4 seaters, i wasn't thinking about the Mondial but the 12 cyl cars. They are nice if you are in a 1% mood. Notwithstanding my ennui about the later cars- i actually dig the 4 wheel drive Ferrari station wagon. If you're gonna be conspicuous, you might as well show you can afford to be stupid about it too.

Champ04 · Nov 1, 2012

MylesBAstor said:
So it's not ok for others to speculate, but it's ok for you?

Don't be daft, Miles. I'm not speculating. I'm making a reasonable statement based, ironically enough, on the basis of this thread. We're talking about equipment that is very expensive on a website that is all about very expensive equipment. It's not a stretch to think that the people populating this joint would be better off than average.
Or maybe you thought I was speculating about Noel Lee? Seriously? You do know who that is, right? (rhetorical sarcasm)
Or maybe it's that you think everyone here is SO rich and arrogant that they won't consider anyone driving a Ferrari as "rich". Dang! What's it take to be called rich for you?
Incidentally, you responded, but you didn't answer the question.

Champ04 · Nov 1, 2012

whart said:
The biggest customer of the Ferrari dealership I used to frequent owned a garbage company. Just sayin'. And, FWIW, you can own a Ferrari (say a 328 or even a 360, let alone the unloved 4 seaters, for less than a blinged out SUV or pick up truck).

And one of the biggest spenders I had when I was selling this stuff was a greasy mechanic. I even had a bar tender as a customer. None of this means anything. And the fact that you can have a 328 for less than an SUV is also not part of the point. Dave isn't driving a 328.

My point was, pure and simple, was that it is not accurate to make it an absolute statement, "NOBODY is getting rich."
It doesn't matter what the industry is. If a smart business man builds a quality enough business, he will reap the benefits.

puroagave · Nov 1, 2012

kevin deal of upscale audio had a 360 and now has 430. he's on ferrari chat, its not a secret i guess dealers can make a good living too. theres the other side: i work in the former sub-prime mortgage capital of the world where id park next to lambos and f-cars everyday. porsches were seen as training wheels for somthing better down the road. when it all blew apart we had to chase one of our tenants that drove a gallardo as his daily driver, in the end he didnt have two nickels to rub together. we served him at a rundown apartment on the wrong side of town, he had a 'new' car. id be surprised if it was worth a months lease payment on the lambo. LOL

andromedaaudio · Nov 1, 2012

Gimme a 458 italia anytime !!

Bill Hart · Nov 1, 2012

Champ04 said:
And one of the biggest spenders I had when I was selling this stuff was a greasy mechanic. I even had a bar tender as a customer. None of this means anything. And the fact that you can have a 328 for less than an SUV is also not part of the point. Dave isn't driving a 328.

My point was, pure and simple, was that it is not accurate to make it an absolute statement, "NOBODY is getting rich."
It doesn't matter what the industry is. If a smart business man builds a quality enough business, he will reap the benefits.

Sorry, but in a previous post you said "I'm pretty sure even most people here would consider anyone who drives a Ferrari as "rich". "
I was addressing that. And, i have no issue with people making money. But, my other point, which i think is pertinent, is that you can't judge how 'rich' (whatever that means) somebody is by what they drive, or the external trappings of wealth, which can be very misleading as to real financial wherewithal.

MylesBAstor · Nov 1, 2012

Champ04 said:
Don't be daft, Miles. I'm not speculating. I'm making a reasonable statement based, ironically enough, on the basis of this thread. We're talking about equipment that is very expensive on a website that is all about very expensive equipment. It's not a stretch to think that the people populating this joint would be better off than average.
Or maybe you thought I was speculating about Noel Lee? Seriously? You do know who that is, right? (rhetorical sarcasm)
Or maybe it's that you think everyone here is SO rich and arrogant that they won't consider anyone driving a Ferrari as "rich". Dang! What's it take to be called rich for you?
Incidentally, you responded, but you didn't answer the question.

Guess that depends on how you look at it.

A.wayne · Nov 1, 2012

whart said:
I just don't see this as a business to make Big money. Telecom 20 or 30 years ago- check; Internet start ups with a good business model, like Amazon, or E-bay. Check. Selling expensive audio components to a fickle market in uncertain economic times, with price pressure, a diminishing clientele and a niche market at best- not the way to riches.
Not trying to justify extravagant pricing or bogus marketing claims.
The biggest customer of the Ferrari dealership I used to frequent owned a garbage company. Just sayin'. And, FWIW, you can own a Ferrari (say a 328 or even a 360, let alone the unloved 4 seaters) for less than a blinged out SUV or pick up truck.

Not really , takes a deeper pocket to buy an older Ferrari than a new monthly PMT SUV ..... JUst saying......

Bill Hart · Nov 1, 2012

A.wayne said:
Not really , takes a deeper pocket to buy an older Ferrari than a new monthly PMT SUV ..... JUst saying......

A Wayne, not true, but I'm not going to get all Internet arch about it. A vintage collectible can be big money, but there are lot's of older garden variety Ferraris that you can buy very cheaply. Most of them I wouldn't want, but that's a different issue.
PM me, and we can discuss like the gentlemen we are.....

A.wayne · Nov 1, 2012

rbbert said:
Only thing is, I'm pretty sure Dave Wilson was "rich" before he started Wilson Audio, in fact that's how he was able to start Wilson Audio.

"Doing well" and "getting rich" are not at all the same thing.

I really dont know about Dave Wilson being rich or not, before Wilson Audio. I used to buy his CD's decades ago , he was dabbling in the speaker Business then, but to my understanding , his recordings was his main stay at the time. Wilson Audio we know today, came much later. There was also another speaker guy who use to drive a Ferrari and with super bravado has re-invented himself a few times over the years, at one time there was a whole town and it's chamber of commerce looking for him , something to do with misappropriated funds ..

So i guess not all Ferrari people are rich.........and some can be down right slippery ......

Regards,

cjfrbw · Nov 1, 2012

One of my neighbors bought a vintage Ferrari. Thing was a disaster, you could always hear him and he left a cloud of smoke on the road when he passed. I think he paid 50K for it. He wound up pushing it around a lot.

He eventually decided to get a "fake" Ferrari that he enjoyed driving and didn't have to worry about. Don't know what the fake cost.

Bill Hart · Nov 1, 2012

cjfrbw said:
One of my neighbors bought a vintage Ferrari. Thing was a disaster, you could always hear him and he left a cloud of smoke on the road when he passed. I think he paid 50K for it. He wound up pushing it around a lot.

He eventually decided to get a "fake" Ferrari that he enjoyed driving and didn't have to worry about. Don't know what the fake cost.

Guys, i don't want to derail this thread by discussing Ferraris, but there is a big difference between buying an 80's Testarossa (which is not the same as a 50's Testa Rossa) and a vintage Ferrari, which usually refers to the classic street (rather than race) cars of the 50's and 60's. Even some of the 60's cars (the 4 seaters) are not so dear. The cut-off for some is the day Enzo sold the company to FIAT, but that would exclude cars like the Daytona and the 365 Berlinetta Boxer, for which I have high regard. Not meaning to be pedantic, but there's a big difference between a clapped-out older car that has little intrinsic value and one which sells at Van Gogh painting prices.

hvbias · Nov 1, 2012

mep said:
Either you are making this up or the guy running the audio club is an idiot. If you are trying to sell audio gear, are you really going to tell people who are prospective buyers that they could buy other gear at half the price and it would sound just as good? I don’t think so unless you spent your formative years climbing into the little yellow school bus.

I have to agree with you mep. I have a hard time believing any dealer, no matter how "quirky" would make a statement like that to a customer.

Plus I know the thread starter has been banned on at least one forum I know of for starting inflammatory threads which purpose seemed to just provoke the membership.

stehno · Nov 25, 2016

taters said:
I was at an audiophile club meeting and I was talking to the owner. He had some European equipment he was selling and I asked him If the gear was a good value. He said that didn't really matter to audiophiles. He said you could buy gear half the price that would sound as good. I then asked him why they charge so much money for it. He said because they want to make money and the company knows people will pay it. Is this the reality of the audio market in 2012?

Yup. It's even far more true today in 2016 than it was when you asked this question in 2012.

Is this a true statement about the audio Industry

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