Audio shows....Is it your observations that the music is too loud?

AMP

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Feb 27, 2011
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I always find it interesting when the presenter makes music and volume level selections which do nothing to enhance the perception of the product or system.

Several years ago I attended a manufacturer-sponsored event to show off their line of amplifiers and preamps. This was a two day event in which one afternoon was for the local audio club and the following evening was for a small group of good customers at this particular dealer. The first day the rep was demoing a small (100-150WPc) amp and using a pair of W/P 8s to do it. He was playing some great music, but was playing it so loud that the amp was clipping... not a good showing.

The next evening he rolled out the giant SS monoblocks and they were paired to a pair of MAXX2s. Rather than play music this time he instead chose an annoying mix of sound effects and movie soundtracks. All were played at ear-splitting levels. Upon soliciting feedback one of the attendees made the comment, "I don't know about the rest of you, but I like to listen to music." On went a very good recording of a very bad Mahler performance and that's when I couldn't take it anymore.

The problem here was that he had in front of him a hand-selected group of individuals who had the funds and inclination to purchase his products. Rather than let the products speak for themselves under normal conditions he insisted on playing music (or sounds) AT the audience rather than for it. I haven't been to any shows, but many of the reports I read or first-hand accounts I hear suggest a similar problem.

I see it less as the specific case of systems being played too loud and more as an overall lack of consideration for the customer (whether it be end-users or dealers).
 

Bruce B

WBF Founding Member, Pro Audio Production Member
Apr 25, 2010
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The worst offender of all was the Pink Floyd-WYWH 5.1 demo last year. Those ATC monitors ripped my face off!!
 

rbbert

Well-Known Member
Dec 12, 2010
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The worst offender of all was the Pink Floyd-WYWH 5.1 demo last year. Those ATC monitors ripped my face off!!

Considering they were expensive pro active speakers, I was singularly unimpresssed with the sound.
 

Johnny Vinyl

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
May 16, 2010
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Tongue in cheek here - LOUD is GOOD if the music is fresh. LOUD is BAD when it's the same drivel over and over again.
 

A.wayne

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Jan 14, 2011
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Err , can we quantify loud gentlemen ..avg Din? Peaks ?

Im comfortable with 82/88 db avg Din, i will not expose myself to 100db + unless its on dynamic peaks. Also most play symphony music too loud , Symphony music is naturally soft in level big in presence , rich in texture and grow in size. Systems with poor sizing and dynamics you will find the levels too loud and unnatural (to me) sounding..

When playing at low levels a system should be detailed and with presence , there should be no percieved loss of balance..

Regards
 
Last edited:

TheAudioAssociation

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Jul 10, 2010
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XV-1

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May 24, 2010
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I had the system cranked in our room, but it was Metallica and Nirvana!

Now we are talking. :D A lot better than the normal Jazz at the Pawnshop and alike dribble you generally hear at HiFi shows.
 

treitz3

Super Moderator
Staff member
Dec 25, 2011
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Err , can we quantify loud gentlemen ..avg Din? Peaks ?

Hello, A.wayne. I'd be happy to share my thoughts on what is too loud, at least from my experiences at audio shows and/or events. It's too loud IMO when the systems are played at such intensity that the sound stage starts to collapse, imaging starts to get lost and when the room becomes so overloaded with frequencies that the system loses what is one of the greatest aspects of stereo reproduction. That being the imaging and sound staging. When the amplifiers start to clip and it becomes audible or the bass starts to lose its coherency, texture and separation. When playing [as you mention] classical and I'll go ahead and add unamplified acoustic events that are so loud, they become un-real when they should be...and with some systems can be...surreal. When the sound emanating from the speakers becomes annoying to one's ears, regardless of the musical selection or genre. When playing a system that can't handle busy passages well at such a volume to where everything gets congested or muddled together with no clear definition of the individual instruments or singers. When playing a recording that is too bright, shrill or unnaturally hot so loud that one just wants to leave the room to simply avoid the pain. These are just a few of many scenarios to where a volume level adjustment would be all that would be needed to correct, or at the very least, improve things for the listener.

Any, some or all of the aforementioned can make or break an auditioning or observational experience. Don't get me wrong, I like loud and as I mentioned before, one of the aspects of a system I hold in high esteem is wanting to actually play it louder. Being able to while still holding things together is another story. Some folks in control of the volume knob at these shows and events IMO just don't where the volume limits should be placed with particular systems, rooms and recordings. I hope this helps clarifies things a bit and thanks for asking.

As for the average Din [I honestly don't even know what you are referring to here] or peaks, I can not say. I don't use an SPL meter at home and I don't carry one at the shows or events I attend. BTW, I just so happen to agree with everything else you had mentioned in your post.

Tom
 

MrAcoustat

New Member
Jun 5, 2012
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I don't remember them being too loud. And at any rate, I like the volume up so that I can hear the detail.

You will always hear detail at high volumes BUT with a good system you don't have to listend loud because everything is there even at low volumes:)
 

NMMark1962

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Jun 29, 2013
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I am not as bothered by loud music as I am the CHOICE of music. While I love the show videos of Peter Breuninger, some of the music makes me want to hurl. For instance, there must be a CD of a female vocalist singing Elanor Rigby...with just a solo cello...GROSS....in fact, I am taking more and more offense at the overabundance of female vocalists with small instrumental combos...come on folks, there is more than one genre of music to show us what your gear sounds like....LOL

Cheers,
 

Johnny Vinyl

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
May 16, 2010
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I am not as bothered by loud music as I am the CHOICE of music. While I love the show videos of Peter Breuninger, some of the music makes me want to hurl. For instance, there must be a CD of a female vocalist singing Elanor Rigby...with just a solo cello...GROSS....in fact, I am taking more and more offense at the overabundance of female vocalists with small instrumental combos...come on folks, there is more than one genre of music to show us what your gear sounds like....LOL

Cheers,

Our own Gary Koh is trying to change that and I commend him for taking that "chance". I need to find my copy of Frankie Goes to Hollywood!
 

garylkoh

WBF Technical Expert (Speakers & Audio Equipment)
Sep 6, 2010
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Our own Gary Koh is trying to change that and I commend him for taking that "chance". I need to find my copy of Frankie Goes to Hollywood!

Thanks, John.

Frankie Goes to Hollywood is fabulous. Try Swedish House Mafia or Diplo for something current, or Infected Mushroom or Propellerheads too. All still available on vinyl :)

Props.jpg
 

MrAcoustat

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Thanks, John.

Frankie Goes to Hollywood is fabulous. Try Swedish House Mafia or Diplo for something current, or Infected Mushroom or Propellerheads too. All still available on vinyl :)

View attachment 10668

Hi Gary will you be at T.A.V.E.S. 2013 on november 1 - 2 - 3 - ?????
 

NMMark1962

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Jun 29, 2013
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http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=214797

Tell you what...want to hear a CD that will clear a room?? I have a CD of a piece called Utrenja, by Penderecki.....the piece is ultra ultra contemporary and features wailing saxes, VERY tight tone clusters, a wailing tenor and some serious basso profundo......totally fascinating music and I cannot wait to bring it to a show some day......

Take THAT, silly female vocalist with tiny combo!!!

Cheers,
 

Shaffer

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Nov 2, 2012
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The music isn't loud enough.* We all know that critical point in a given recording where everything snaps into place. Gotta crank the sucker. Sure, one can get a good idea as to the presentation, detail, space at lower volumes, but the realism isn't there. I want impact! Like live. Then, there's the music. What's with the anemic chick singers? Yea, I get the rationale, not the least of which must include a system's ease in reproducing something of that sort. Not terribly challenging, not like large-scale material. It sound good, it doesn't offend, and it's a common point of reference as pathetic as that may be (I'm including myself). Now, Gary has the right idea!

*I haven't been to a show in ~10 years.
 

MrAcoustat

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Jun 5, 2012
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It will be fun as long as it is not an anemic sounding female jazz singer singing Elanor Rigby or some less than stellar jazz combo.....

Cheers,

And for me NO heavy rock and NO heavy metal just good plain music and quality recordings.:)
 

GaryProtein

VIP/Donor
Jul 25, 2012
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I rarely find the music too loud.

More often the music STINKS and I would never listen to it at home.

As a few have said, please, none of the anemic female singers or mindless atonal smooth jazz with echos of people snapping their fingers or computer music.

The anemic music that people have used on YouTube to show off their system should be avoided.
 

GaryProtein

VIP/Donor
Jul 25, 2012
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You will always hear detail at high volumes BUT with a good system you don't have to listend loud because everything is there even at low volumes:)

That may be true, and I can have a conversation with someone by whispering back and forth, but I hate the way it sounds and would rather not have the conversation at all under those conditions.

Unless it's background music, I want to hear it so it rocks the house, be it classical, rock or jazz.
 

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