TAD owners: speaker setup

AudioExplorations

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Apr 5, 2012
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Just wondering what TAD owners have found in terms of optimal positioning.

The manual recommends a triangle where the distance between speakers < distance from speakers to listener (see diagram below), with the speakers pointed directly at the listening position.

From personal experience I have found that whilst this gives great tone and focus it is somewhat restricting of the soundstage width, depending of course on the distance between the speakers (B).

At shows I have noticed TAD speakers are often setup with a little more toe-out than advised in the manual and this giving more of an expansive soundstage. This may be due to the large area of listeners the speakers need to cover at shows.

Typically loudspeakers are setup in an equilateral triangle with toe-in such that the speakers point just outside the shoulders of the listener.

I have started experimenting a little but have not yet found what I consider the optimal setup. Would like to get to a rule of thumb of say B=0.9A or B=0.95A where the size of the triangle wouldn't really affect the tone/focus/soundstage and would be more dependant on the room.

Would be interested to hear how other TAD owners have their speakers setup.

tad.jpg
 

Eli08

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Jul 19, 2012
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I have my R1 at a 0,87 ratio. So distance between them is 0,87 the distance from listening position.

This, after trying many, gives me very deep and wide soundstage. They are staying like this. It has taken me many weeks of try and error and moving around.

Distance to side walls may affect wideness. i have mine quite farther away than suggested, at 1,3 meters aprox.

They point direct to each of my ears, so cross just a bit behind my head. Again that is the best result I have gotten regarding toe in. Farther I loose wide and stage is less defined. More open I gain in terms of wideness but less realistic and less deepness. Less rich in tones and texture as well.
 

AudioExplorations

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Apr 5, 2012
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Thanks for posting.

My current setup: distance to speakers = 2.6m, distance between speakers = 2.1m giving a ratio of 0.81. Speaker axis pointed to just outside the shoulders.

I will try your setup - a bit more width (will try your 0.87) and point them at my ears. I guess this will give a comparable soundstage width but may affect tone and focus, will report back.
 

Eli08

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Jul 19, 2012
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If I recall correctly, the CR1s sounded better a bit more close to each other than what would be considered normal. But 0,81 maybe is too low. But no higher than 0,90. At that point they started to lose some richness. Let me know your findings. That I recall were my findimgs.
 

AudioExplorations

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Trying out the 'Eli setup'; 0.87 with speakers crossing over at ~30cm behind the listening position.

Sounding great, definitely an improvement to the previous setup. The soundstage has widened and deepened considerably but is still cohesive with solid instrument focus.
 

Eli08

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Jul 19, 2012
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Good to hear. Are you still seating at 2,6? That I recall was aprox the distance I ended out using to Speakers. Sounded great.
 

AudioExplorations

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Yes pretty close to that; 2.64 m to speakers, 2.26 m between speakers, ratio 0.86 (was slightly off in the math before).
 
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AudioExplorations

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"Setting up the Reference One was quite simple and fast—about 90
minutes from crates in the garage to final placement. The speakers
seemed remarkably unfussy about location, but that could have
been an illusion owing to designer Andrew Jones’ vast experience
in setting up his creation. I was surprised by the amount of toe-in
Jones selected; the axes crossed in front of the listening position
rather than at the listening seat or behind it."

from: http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/tad-reference-one-loudspeaker-tas-218-1/
 

Eli08

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Jul 19, 2012
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yes I have read and seen before about this possibility. I tried it and although it sounded better than expected with so much toe in, the soundstage was smaller like that in my room. Maybe some more deepness, not sureI recall the sound was a bit warmer also, but overall, still sounded very good. I guess it may have to do with how is every room and probably in particular with the amount of early reflections present.

One thing true about that article, and one thing that probably if the reviewer had invested more time wold have change. It is a transparent box and matching is key to get results that are to the listener likings. Every single change up the chain is easily noticeable. Be it cables, playing modes of DACs, and of course change in gear. Precisely due to that, I find it relatively easy to tune, going from a very detailed sound, as he describes, to actually the other extreme. Changing positioning and cables alone, makes a huge difference on the perceived nature of the speakers. I think this shows how transparent and neutral they are. Finding the right balance and adjusting to listener likings is a matter of expending some time of trial and error that pays out.
 

ozy

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Nov 13, 2012
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can anyone comment on the amount of break in( no noticeable change in sound) the Ref 1 would require?
 

Eli08

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Jul 19, 2012
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can anyone comment on the amount of break in( no noticeable change in sound) the Ref 1 would require?

Hi Ozy, hope all is well. I don't remember exactly how long it took. Quite long. Especially for the concentric mid tweeter drive. I would say 300 hours at least but still improving to over 500+ hours of playing. The bass also improves big time during this period. Hoever you should get a good sound earlier than that, buti certainly it improves with time.

Are you considering a pair?
 

ozy

Well-Known Member
Nov 13, 2012
219
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Atlanta ,Ga.
Yes I am .....
Love the focal Stella but looking for something different . The tad ref1 is on a short list , along with the yg Sonja , raidho c4 .....
And you say ???
 

Eli08

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Jul 19, 2012
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Well, haven't Heard any of those two others, so in terms of compartion, can't be of all much help with those specific models. I can say I have been with the R1s for over 3 years now, and I rebuided my whole system since. But the speakers. I couldn't be happier. They are fantastic speakers and never been tempted by any other that I've Heard before or after.

There may be better, but I just haven't Heard them. There is really no limit for what I know so far for them. The higher you go upstream, the better they show their capabilities. For me was no brainer the minute I Heard them.
 

ozy

Well-Known Member
Nov 13, 2012
219
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Atlanta ,Ga.
Thanks Eli for your perspective. what did you use on the ref1, in terms of source and amplifications, when you received them, and how has it evolved from there?
on the few occasions i heard them they were run by their TAD gear, once with lamm. on all occasions they left me with a profound impact.
 

Eli08

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Jul 19, 2012
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Thanks Eli for your perspective. what did you use on the ref1, in terms of source and amplifications, when you received them, and how has it evolved from there?
on the few occasions i heard them they were run by their TAD gear, once with lamm. on all occasions they left me with a profound impact.

When I first got them, I had as source the Esotéric P02/D02. As preamp the ARC red 40, and as amps Clases Omega. I had power conditioner and a mix of cables.

First I added was the clock G01. Before the R1s I had tried the clock bit could not hear a great improvement. WIth the R1 it was very easey to note. Then I wnet for amos and after listening to as many as I could ended up with the TAD M600. Ford preamp also went TAD C600. And finally as source I chanced to the Esotéric grandioso. Other things I dic, was changing the cables for Siltech all around, (digital for clock still using mexcel). Took out the power conditioner and uses Octopus DC power bar, and added a Tripoint Troy.

Thai't is short what the system is right now and living it.
 

ozy

Well-Known Member
Nov 13, 2012
219
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Atlanta ,Ga.
Nice system! agree fully on the siltech cables- have used them for ever and a half...
The full TAD system is what i heard on several occasions and it was superb.
To be continued.....:b
 

Eli08

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Jul 19, 2012
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Also important, I spoke to a TAD senior not too long ago, and they plan in keeping the R1 as it is for the forseeable future. He mentioned 5 years or more. They just don't see anything better out there and feel they don't want to change it for pure marketing or marginal gains, and doing a significantly better speaker will take them a long time of R&D.

I also like that philosophy, similar to other really high end reputable brands like Bouder and a few others. Don't come out every 2 or 3 years with anew breakthrough speaker, amp or whatever. If that was posible either you did something very wrong with the prior versions or just need the marketing fuss to boost sales...
 

ozy

Well-Known Member
Nov 13, 2012
219
37
895
Atlanta ,Ga.
Also important, I spoke to a TAD senior not too long ago, and they plan in keeping the R1 as it is for the forseeable future. He mentioned 5 years or more. They just don't see anything better out there and feel they don't want to change it for pure marketing or marginal gains, and doing a significantly better speaker will take them a long time of R&D.

I also like that philosophy, similar to other really high end reputable brands like Bouder and a few others. they Don't come out every 2 or 3 years with anew breakthrough speaker, amp or whatever. either you did something very wrong with the prior versions or just need the marketing fuss to boost sales...

....couldn't agree more on that last notion.. some new comer companies tend to bring A NEW REFERENCE , this or that ,every couple of years, purly for profit making...they couldn't get it right on the first go around ,,so try and try again they do... pretty pathetic way to do business.....
oth, companies like you mentioned, boulder, burmester, focal,dcs and esoteric ,just ot name a few, have had a pretty stable line up, mainly due to their thorough r&d. glad to hear that TAD falls into that category.

now, do you know what the difference/s between the mk1 and the mk 2 is/are?
and have you played with any after market spikes for the tads?
 

Eli08

New Member
Jul 19, 2012
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Yes. There was a long chat about it a few years back. They changed the supplier of the materials for the woofes cos the one they had at the time could not guarantee the supply. They looked long for one that sounded the same and had same properties, and named MKII just for logistics pourposes (repairs, numer series and the likes. The process of build and the sound is the same on both models. They spend long hours to make sure that both sounded equaly.

Regarding after market spikes, I was tempted. The manual says if you are going to place them at a flat Surface, is better not to use any (like manuals). The speakers come with 2 sets. One spikes and one round.

I asked the TAD senior when he was at my place and he suggested not to use any for how I had my set up (you can see it at my system section). He said if you place them in Wood and right after you have some carpet or similar, is better not to use as it alters the height. But I have not checked or experimented. The things are realy heavy at 150kg each, so kind of glad they suggested not to use any. But who knows.

It hs a metal base at the bottom really heavy so I guess that helps performing well without. Haven't seen any with spikes actually. If you have think carpet I guess then it is recommended.
 

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