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Thread: Ypsilon VPS - 100 phono stage - how good?

  1. #21
    Member Sponsor Addicted to Best! microstrip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cjfrbw View Post
    Another would be Allnic's 3000 series MM phono input with Allnic's own 3000 series nuvistor headamp (active headamp instead of input trannie, uses nuvistor tubes). This is the combo I have, but I am surprised very few people have heard the nuvistor device with the Allnic phono stage.

    The current Allnic phonos offer all kinds of equalization and loading options. The Nuvistor head amp has four loading options.
    Cjfrbw,

    What is the nuvistor used by Allnic? Some years ago I found a few 6CW4's from my old conrad johnson premier 7B in a box - they were used in the phono input . The cj premier 7B phono sounded great, but could not be used with very low output cartriges.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by microstrip View Post
    Cjfrbw,

    What is the nuvistor used by Allnic? Some years ago I found a few 6CW4's from my old conrad johnson premier 7B in a box - they were used in the phono input . The cj premier 7B phono sounded great, but could not be used with very low output cartriges.
    No pure-tube phono section can be used with low output moving coil cartridges without adding too much noise IMO. You either need FETS driving the tube gain stage or you need a set of trafos to step up the voltage. And this is coming from a guy who used to own and love the Counterpoint SA-2 loading into the SA-5.1. Tons of gain and a sound I loved, but tons of noise riding on the signal that today I just can't live with anymore.

  3. #23
    [Industry Expert]Member Sponsor [WBF Founding Member] MylesBAstor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mep View Post
    No pure-tube phono section can be used with low output moving coil cartridges without adding too much noise IMO. You either need FETS driving the tube gain stage or you need a set of trafos to step up the voltage. And this is coming from a guy who used to own and love the Counterpoint SA-2 loading into the SA-5.1. Tons of gain and a sound I loved, but tons of noise riding on the signal that today I just can't live with anymore.
    Have you ever heard the top of the line Jadis phono stage? Plenty of gain for practically any MC and no noise issues.
    Myles B. Astor, PhD
    Senior Assistant Editor, Positive-Feedback, www.positive-feedback.com;
    Executive Editor, www.AVShowrooms.com
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  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by microstrip View Post
    Cjfrbw,

    What is the nuvistor used by Allnic? Some years ago I found a few 6CW4's from my old conrad johnson premier 7B in a box - they were used in the phono input . The cj premier 7B phono sounded great, but could not be used with very low output cartriges.
    I agree that the nuvistor stage would have to be on a case by case basis with cartridges below about .3mV. However, KS Park managed to get it pretty quiet for an active stage. Active input stages will have some noise, whether they be transistor, tube, nuvistor or whatever compared to a noiseless and humless input coil.

    I don't know what specific nuvistor KS Park is using now, but the tube regulated power supply is massive compared to the older CJ nuvistor based devices, which had trivial power supplies and nuvistors suspended on rubber bands for microphonics.

    I also imagine that the Allnic nuvistor head amp can be used with any high quality phono stage. You could ask David Beetles at Hammertone Audio.

    With the Allnic H3000, the result with the headamp are quite splendid with Allnic Puritas and Verito cartridges.
    Last edited by cjfrbw; 10-21-2012 at 05:00 PM.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by MylesBAstor View Post
    Have you ever heard the top of the line Jadis phono stage? Plenty of gain for practically any MC and no noise issues.
    Nope. I never had the deep pockets to think about owning the top of the line Jadis gear. I used to feel lucky to own the Jadis Defy 7 MKII until I didn't feel lucky to own it anymore.

  6. #26
    Member Sponsor Addicted to Best! microstrip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cjfrbw View Post
    (...) I don't know what specific nuvistor KS Park is using now, but the tube regulated power supply is massive compared to the older CJ nuvistor based devices, which had trivial power supplies and nuvistors suspended on rubber bands for microphonics.

    I also imagine that the Allnic nuvistor head amp can be used with any high quality phono stage. You could ask David Beetles at Hammertone Audio.

    With the Allnic H3000, the result with the headamp are quite splendid with Allnic Puritas and Veritas cartridges.
    Digging a little more in my past I also remember a cj Premier Six pre-preamplifier using several nuvistors. I bought it used from a shop that took it in part exchange and was selling it as faulty, because they found it was not working properly as a RIAA stage .

    BTW, the power supply of the cj premier 7b was not trivial at all - it was dual mono, stored in aluminum heavy boxes and used exclusivey expensive film capacitors, Vishay resistors and Motorola semiconductors in a double stage regulation scheme. Not usual at that time ...

  7. #27
    [Industry Expert]Member Sponsor [WBF Founding Member] MylesBAstor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by microstrip View Post
    Digging a little more in my past I also remember a cj Premier Six pre-preamplifier using several nuvistors. I bought it used from a shop that took it in part exchange and was selling it as faulty, because they found it was not working properly as a RIAA stage .
    So did the EV 20 that I had. Hated those nuvistors because they went noisy after three or four months

    BTW, the power supply of the cj premier 7b was not trivial at all - it was dual mono, stored in aluminum heavy boxes and used exclusivey expensive film capacitors, Vishay resistors and Motorola semiconductors in a double stage regulation scheme. Not usual at that time ...
    Their first dual mono, zero feedback design.
    Myles B. Astor, PhD
    Senior Assistant Editor, Positive-Feedback, www.positive-feedback.com;
    Executive Editor, www.AVShowrooms.com
    _____________________________
    "At the heart of science is an essential balance between two seemingly contradictory attitudes - an openness to new ideas, no matter how bizarre or counterintuitive they may be, and the most ruthless skeptical scrutiny of all ideas, old and new. That is how deep truths are winnowed from deep nonsense." - Carl Sagan

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by microstrip View Post
    Digging a little more in my past I also remember a cj Premier Six pre-preamplifier using several nuvistors. I bought it used from a shop that took it in part exchange and was selling it as faulty, because they found it was not working properly as a RIAA stage .

    BTW, the power supply of the cj premier 7b was not trivial at all - it was dual mono, stored in aluminum heavy boxes and used exclusivey expensive film capacitors, Vishay resistors and Motorola semiconductors in a double stage regulation scheme. Not usual at that time ...
    I was thinking of their dedicated nuvistor phono boxes, which were reputed to be noisy. I was not aware that they also used nuvistors in their high end preamps. I would have to consult the great google god to find out more specifics.

    Nuvistors are tricky to implement properly. The sockets are a sticking point, as is microphonics. The older sockets get noisy rather quickly.

    Allnic appears to have tamed them in the head amp, with special sockets manufactured by Allnic. They sound pretty amazing when implemented properly.

    I believe that the Beetle's "Abbey Road" was mastered on one of the rare Ampex nuvistor pro tape decks.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by MylesBAstor View Post
    Their first dual mono, zero feedback design.
    And still extremely rare on the used market.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by mep View Post
    And still extremely rare on the used market.
    I've only ever seen two. One that I heard belonged to fellow colleague Tom Miiller who combined it with the Premier 8 amps.
    Myles B. Astor, PhD
    Senior Assistant Editor, Positive-Feedback, www.positive-feedback.com;
    Executive Editor, www.AVShowrooms.com
    _____________________________
    "At the heart of science is an essential balance between two seemingly contradictory attitudes - an openness to new ideas, no matter how bizarre or counterintuitive they may be, and the most ruthless skeptical scrutiny of all ideas, old and new. That is how deep truths are winnowed from deep nonsense." - Carl Sagan

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