ESL performance and ambient conditions

Andre Marc · Oct 20, 2012

A fried of mine mentioned that years ago he had experience with Martin Logan's where they would sound different depending on humidity levels.

That jogged my memory from when I was a kid and on humid days in New York my dad,s Quads would make crazy popping sounds.

Well the for the first few days of listening to the ML Ethos I felt they were a bit dark sounding, surprisingly. Well, we have had a few relatively humid days here in SoCal. I decided to run the air conditioning and the sound of the Logan's changed, much more nimble and lighter in tone...In a word, the way stats should sound.

Any thoughts?

JonFo · Oct 20, 2012

Andre, yes, ESLs are sensitive to humidity. On the ML forum there a few threads on this topic, and the fix is run some air conditioning for 30 minutes or so and get the humidity under control. Then performance is back to 'normal'.

As for why they do this, I think it has to do with how high humidity lowers the electrostatic force between stators and diaphragm.

MylesBAstor · Oct 20, 2012

JonFo said:
Andre, yes, ESLs are sensitive to humidity. On the ML forum there a few threads on this topic, and the fix is run some air conditioning for 30 minutes or so and get the humidity under control. Then performance is back to 'normal'.

As for why they do this, I think it has to do with how high humidity lowers the electrostatic force between stators and diaphragm.

But I thought the newer ML were more immune to this effect?

treitz3 · Oct 20, 2012

Hello, Andre. I have always been under the impression that all ribbon type speakers and humidity do not combine well.

Tom

ack · Oct 20, 2012

Andre Marc said:
A fried of mine mentioned that years ago he had experience with Martin Logan's where they would sound different depending on humidity levels.

That jogged my memory from when I was a kid and on humid days in New York my dad,s Quads would make crazy popping sounds.

Well the for the first few days of listening to the ML Ethos I felt they were a bit dark sounding, surprisingly. Well, we have had a few relatively humid days here in SoCal. I decided to run the air conditioning and the sound of the Logan's changed, much more nimble and lighter in tone...In a word, the way stats should sound.

Any thoughts?

Yes, I have posted here in other threads that the optimal humidity level for ML is 45%-55%. All MLs suffer from this effect. The other thing to worry about is what to do with the back wave and lateral dispersion. The best set up basically involves plenty of room all around the speakers (e.g. see my system pics)

audioarcher · Oct 20, 2012

Interesting discussion. I have Innersounds and have not noticed this effect. I have been told that the Innersounds/Sanders can play in a high humidity environment with no problem. I will have to pay more attention to the humidity and see if I can hear a difference. Where I live the relative humidity does not change drastically very often so it may be difficult to detect a change.

ack · Oct 20, 2012

There is an easy way to prove it... take a damp cloth (preferably using Windex) and wipe one of the stators, then watch the sound simply disappear for a few minutes on the MLs.

JonFo · Oct 20, 2012

MylesBAstor said:
But I thought the newer ML were more immune to this effect?

Myles, the new MLs are better in this respect, but not immune to it.

I had panels made in '96 on my Monoliths, then repaneled them in 2006, and the newer panels are less sensitive to humidity. To the point where I just don't notice any differences attributable to humidity. But then, on super-humid Georgia summers, I run the AC in the house

Andre Marc · Oct 20, 2012

JonFo said:
Andre, yes, ESLs are sensitive to humidity. On the ML forum there a few threads on this topic, and the fix is run some air conditioning for 30 minutes or so and get the humidity under control. Then performance is back to 'normal'.

As for why they do this, I think it has to do with how high humidity lowers the electrostatic force between stators and diaphragm.

Ok, so I am not totally nuts. The difference in performance with respect to accuracy of tone was startling with and without air conditioning.

Andre Marc · Oct 20, 2012

ack said:
Yes, I have posted here in other threads that the optimal humidity level for ML is 45%-55%. All MLs suffer from this effect. The other thing to worry about is what to do with the back wave and lateral dispersion. The best set up basically involves plenty of room all around the speakers (e.g. see my system pics)

Very, very nice set up. I have a Revox A77 myself. I can only manage about 3 feet of space around all sides of the speakers.

Interestingly, in the manual, Logan stipulates the newer designs work well even in tight spaces, they only warn about
surfaces not being too hard or soft.

If I have time later I will post a pic.

kevinh · Dec 13, 2012

Andre Marc said:
A fried of mine mentioned that years ago he had experience with Martin Logan's where they would sound different depending on humidity levels.

That jogged my memory from when I was a kid and on humid days in New York my dad,s Quads would make crazy popping sounds.

Well the for the first few days of listening to the ML Ethos I felt they were a bit dark sounding, surprisingly. Well, we have had a few relatively humid days here in SoCal. I decided to run the air conditioning and the sound of the Logan's changed, much more nimble and lighter in tone...In a word, the way stats should sound.

Any thoughts?

I remember talking to Roger West about this some years ago some of his customers in tropical areas of Asia (Singapore for example), The issue had to do with the materials used to insulate the stators, he changed the material to deal with the issue. He hadn't seen the issue where he lived (Utah) an area without humidity issues.:b

So it is entirely possible that humidity is changing the sound/performance of yor speakers.

Andre Marc · Dec 13, 2012

kevinh said:
I remember talking to Roger West about this some years ago some of his customers in tropical areas of Asia (Singapore for example), The issue had to do with the materials used to insulate the stators, he changed the material to deal with the issue. He hadn't seen the issue where he lived (Utah) an area without humidity issues.:b

So it is entirely possible that humidity is changing the sound/performance of yor speakers.

Coincidentally..I had to pack up the Martin Logan's today to send back to the factory. I reinstalled my Thiel CS2.4s.

Man, I have to readjust to a dynamic speaker again.....totally different presentation. The Ethos really grew on me.

I feel the musicians have a moved a bit farther back in the stage....it is going to take a few days to get my bearings.

treitz3 · Dec 13, 2012

Andre Marc said:
I feel the musicians have a moved a bit farther back in the stage....

As in a good way or unfavorable?

Tom

Andre Marc · Dec 13, 2012

treitz3 said:
As in a good way or unfavorable?

Tom

In a different way. The same thing happened in reverse when I first installed the Ethos...things seemed a bit diffuse...

ESLs can do things that no dynamic speaker can do....and dynamic speakers have few things they do no ESL can replicate...

It is all different flavors.

treitz3 · Dec 13, 2012

I hear you. The saying that there is "no replacement for displacement" can go both ways in this regards. Different strokes for different folks.

Tom

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