+1.
I also spoke to Andrew on Wednesday after Kevin and Jonathan had left his room. Not sure Andrew will end up posting about it.....but he might.
MM7's are here
- Thread starter Mike Lavigne
- Start date
+1.
I also spoke to Andrew on Wednesday after Kevin and Jonathan had left his room. Not sure Andrew will end up posting about it.....but he might.
further thoughts about the results of the set-up after a few days of listening.
this is a considerable shift in the presentation of my system, for the better. I've been going thru lots and lots of digital files which have been references for years.....hundreds of them. when I said above that the system is now 'rounder' and less 'hifi'......the implications of this change has become much more clear to me. to put it simply, everything has more body and completeness.....with seemingly perfect frequency balance. voices are spot on natural and correct. piano, cello, violin, guitar, and horn, pretty much every instrument is degrees more real. tonally complete.
there were two particular recordings which have been touchstones for me over the years which hit this home like a ton of bricks. both female vocal.
first is very well known as 'track 12 from Burmeister II', Anne Sophie Von Otter', 'Mariengesange'. I first heard this track back when I purchased this demo disc at the Stereophile Show in L.A. in 1998. the disc was brand new then, I remember bringing it back to our local audio club meeting and blowing people's minds with the demo cuts off it. everyone had to have a copy. I've likely listened to this track at least 5000 times on all sorts of systems and many dozens of times every time I've tested any gear since.....for 16 years. I think most people have this etched in their brains and I don't have to explain it. it's a very challenging female vocal recording. any degree of less than spot on tonal balance, smearing, or less than coherent mid-bass will jump out at you as you move toward solving this challenging recording. it is now fresh and new to me. all the niggles and nits I thought were in the recording are gone. it soars and stays solid and true thru every note for the first time to my ears. harmonically complete and clear as a bell.
it's true what they say; the only way to identify distortion is to remove (some of) it.
really the same type of thing with the second recording; although it's not nearly as widely known.....and I've only used this one since 2005......and maybe only listened to it 3000 times.....it's even more challenging and even a better recording technically.
it's Anna Netrebko, track 11 from the SACD 'Sempre Libera', Donizetti's 'Ardon gli incensi'. this is a very, very vigorous aria with lots of soprano fireworks and a very difficult to reproduce glass harmonica which compliments Anna with interplay during the most vigorous parts of the cut. this cut will separate the men from the boys, the pretenders from the accomplished. with every step forward in my system development this cut has taken a clear step forward. when I do any sort of gear comparisons this cut is my 'litmus test'. there is no place to hide. again; listening to this now, after Kevin's work, the cut is at another level and I think reached it's honest rendition. both Anna's voice and the glass harmonica are limitless with openness and clarity. based on years of going to this cut in my and many other systems it was a revelation.
basically all the cuts I've enjoyed in the last few days are like this; full, fleshed out, right, real. no stress, no edge, just music. I've realized that these recordings and even the formats are not the issue; it's being able to get the system and room from intruding.
sure; the bass impact and macro dynamics are now at ridiculous levels of performance, but to me it's being able to get the basics correct which make a system right......and musically involving. of course; over-the-top capability in dynamics and bass performance do have important contributions to the nuances of the music too.
this is a considerable shift in the presentation of my system, for the better. I've been going thru lots and lots of digital files which have been references for years.....hundreds of them. when I said above that the system is now 'rounder' and less 'hifi'......the implications of this change has become much more clear to me. to put it simply, everything has more body and completeness.....with seemingly perfect frequency balance. voices are spot on natural and correct. piano, cello, violin, guitar, and horn, pretty much every instrument is degrees more real. tonally complete.
there were two particular recordings which have been touchstones for me over the years which hit this home like a ton of bricks. both female vocal.
first is very well known as 'track 12 from Burmeister II', Anne Sophie Von Otter', 'Mariengesange'. I first heard this track back when I purchased this demo disc at the Stereophile Show in L.A. in 1998. the disc was brand new then, I remember bringing it back to our local audio club meeting and blowing people's minds with the demo cuts off it. everyone had to have a copy. I've likely listened to this track at least 5000 times on all sorts of systems and many dozens of times every time I've tested any gear since.....for 16 years. I think most people have this etched in their brains and I don't have to explain it. it's a very challenging female vocal recording. any degree of less than spot on tonal balance, smearing, or less than coherent mid-bass will jump out at you as you move toward solving this challenging recording. it is now fresh and new to me. all the niggles and nits I thought were in the recording are gone. it soars and stays solid and true thru every note for the first time to my ears. harmonically complete and clear as a bell.
it's true what they say; the only way to identify distortion is to remove (some of) it.
really the same type of thing with the second recording; although it's not nearly as widely known.....and I've only used this one since 2005......and maybe only listened to it 3000 times.....it's even more challenging and even a better recording technically.
it's Anna Netrebko, track 11 from the SACD 'Sempre Libera', Donizetti's 'Ardon gli incensi'. this is a very, very vigorous aria with lots of soprano fireworks and a very difficult to reproduce glass harmonica which compliments Anna with interplay during the most vigorous parts of the cut. this cut will separate the men from the boys, the pretenders from the accomplished. with every step forward in my system development this cut has taken a clear step forward. when I do any sort of gear comparisons this cut is my 'litmus test'. there is no place to hide. again; listening to this now, after Kevin's work, the cut is at another level and I think reached it's honest rendition. both Anna's voice and the glass harmonica are limitless with openness and clarity. based on years of going to this cut in my and many other systems it was a revelation.
basically all the cuts I've enjoyed in the last few days are like this; full, fleshed out, right, real. no stress, no edge, just music. I've realized that these recordings and even the formats are not the issue; it's being able to get the system and room from intruding.
sure; the bass impact and macro dynamics are now at ridiculous levels of performance, but to me it's being able to get the basics correct which make a system right......and musically involving. of course; over-the-top capability in dynamics and bass performance do have important contributions to the nuances of the music too.
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thank you Bodhi, for the kind comments. it has taken considerable of my efforts, as well as the talents and thoughts of others.
Mike
Congrats on a job well done. There have been some comments here that you really didn't change much in the actual placement of the speakers and are wondering about your startling improvement in sound. I can certainly attest to the fact that small movements in the speaker position can make big changes at the listening position. I can recall several years ago when Jeff Fritz did his review on TWBAS with Wilson X-1's. He had commented that but a 1/4" difference can make audible changes at the listening position and he was called to task on this issue and severely criticized that this just shouldn't be so. I have experienced exactly what you did when I tweaked the speaker position on my X2's. This was done at the suggestion of Nick Doshi last year when he set up his tape head pre at my house. After listening to the system Nick suggested that I move my speakers all but one inch towards the center but preserving the original toe in angle. Once done Nick then suggested that I now toe out my speakers by another 1/2". He suggested that I put some painters' tape along the top of my listening chair on either side of my ears. With the use of a laser light held along the inside wall of each speaker and shined towards the listening position. Measurements were taken before and after the extra 1/2" toe out. What amazed me was that the extra 1/2" toe out resulted in moving the laser light an extra 9" out lateral to each ear. It was a revelation to not only see how a small speaker adjustment can produce that widening of 9" on each side of the listening position but so also to hear the profound changes, all for the better.
For those disbelievers, it is an easy experiment to carry out. I did it as did you Mike. I understand your enjoyment and kudos for a job well done.
Congrats on a job well done. There have been some comments here that you really didn't change much in the actual placement of the speakers and are wondering about your startling improvement in sound. I can certainly attest to the fact that small movements in the speaker position can make big changes at the listening position. I can recall several years ago when Jeff Fritz did his review on TWBAS with Wilson X-1's. He had commented that but a 1/4" difference can make audible changes at the listening position and he was called to task on this issue and severely criticized that this just shouldn't be so. I have experienced exactly what you did when I tweaked the speaker position on my X2's. This was done at the suggestion of Nick Doshi last year when he set up his tape head pre at my house. After listening to the system Nick suggested that I move my speakers all but one inch towards the center but preserving the original toe in angle. Once done Nick then suggested that I now toe out my speakers by another 1/2". He suggested that I put some painters' tape along the top of my listening chair on either side of my ears. With the use of a laser light held along the inside wall of each speaker and shined towards the listening position. Measurements were taken before and after the extra 1/2" toe out. What amazed me was that the extra 1/2" toe out resulted in moving the laser light an extra 9" out lateral to each ear. It was a revelation to not only see how a small speaker adjustment can produce that widening of 9" on each side of the listening position but so also to hear the profound changes, all for the better.
For those disbelievers, it is an easy experiment to carry out. I did it as did you Mike. I understand your enjoyment and kudos for a job well done.
thanks Steve.
I think certainly fine tuning the speaker positioning is very very important; but it's doubly important when you have 2 massive towers which are time and phase coherent. that is a lot of firepower which when not exactly right it will tell you that.
but I think the bigger issue is the 4 adjustments of the bass EQ in each powered 2 driver group, of which their are 4. that is 4 x 4 different dials with almost infinite possibilities of combinations. this is where the majority of Kevin's time and focus was.......getting precise room balance along with correct coherency.
Mike, congratulations again. It sounds as though Kevin's fine tuning has really taken your system to the next level. Anna Netrebko was performing at the Vienna State Opera when it was suggested to her that she endorse and then be the inspiration for the Ortofon cartridge which bears her name. Though I am not familiar with this performance, I can imagine why you used it as a reference. Do you know if any of her music is available on vinyl to be enjoyed through your cartridge?
Steve, there is no doubt that such tiny movements are audible in highly resolving systems. I've played with toe-in in increments of 1/16" at the speaker which corresponds to about 1 1/2" at the listening seat. As do tiny fore and aft movements at the speaker. It matters and I have found that speaker symmetry is very important. I laser is indispensable in achieving this accuracy.
Mike - I must confess I have never had the chance to hear MM speakers, but your setup looks just fantastic! - I am sure you will have hundreds of hours of musical bliss. Congratulations!
thanks Peter.
i love 'my' MC Anna, as well as Anna N. i do have 2 of Anna Netrebko's Lps, 'violetta', DG 00289 477 6167, and 'duets' w/Rolando Villazon, DG 00289 477 6629. they are both digital recordings; none-the-less they are full bodied, natural sounding, and great listens. if you like opera arias then i recommend them highly. caution; I'm no opera expert in terms of the character acting and nuance of opera performance. i either like it or i don't and i don't over-think it.
if you can play SACD's i do recommend that Anna Netrebko recording. it's great music.
I spent the morning doing yard work......but the afternoon has been vinyl listening for the last 4-5 hours. the combination of the new composite arm wand with the Durand Telos Sapphire and the Kevin's MM7 set-up magic is almost more than i can grasp. i listened to some jazz and then mostly classical. of particular note for fine sound is a Bartok String Quartet, #1 & #2 , Quartuor Vegh, Valois MB 967. magical. and......Liszt Concerto #1 and #2, Richter, Speakers Corner Lp reissue (Philips 900 000). wonderful recording and performance.
the 'new' body and precision of the speaker set-up takes classical to 'unheard of' hights. I'm quite amazed.
since i pulled out those Anna Lps those are next up.
yes. the added body takes this great recording to another level. i was hypnotized by the nuance.
my system now reminds me of the tonal balance in your system. sounds like tubes.
i can't wait for you to hear it.
nice read and i would say great after sales service ,finetuning by ear only brings you so far ,happy listening
Thanks for the recording tips, Mike. I have the Burmester but not the Netreboko SACD. It will definetly find its way here now. I am also very impressed with the level of sound you seem to have acccomplished now. It must be very rewarding and satisfying. Congratulations.
thanks Roysen, get that Netrebko SACD.....you won't be sorry. I hope all is well with your health and that your system comes together completely.
it's fun to read my comments again from May, now 4 months ago.....and realize it's been that long. the system has been wonderful to live with and enjoy. my only 'want' is waiting for the new dart pre to arrive, it is suppose to be here sometime in October. I had the pre-production unit in June for 2 weeks and cannot get it's magic out of my mind.
Thanks for your concern, Mike. The health situation is currently quite stable. I am however considering my options in regards to my hifi system and one option I have not given much thought but which really deserves my attention is actually the Evolution Acoustics MM7. I wonder how the guys would consider a Europe installation? It is after all quite a long treck from the US over here but a requirement from my side for any purchase in this price category would be a professional installation by either the designer or personell especially trained to set up the particular speaker.
glad your health situation is stable.
i do consider the MM7's at the very very top level of speaker performance......and unique in it's combination of (1) deep bass extension (-3db at 7hz, -6db at 3hz), (2) dynamic performance (-4-powered 15" subwoofers and -4- 11" woofers per side), combined with (3) an easy load (96db, 6 ohm) allowing for a wide choice of amplifiers, and (4) total coherence and room adjustability. whatever your vision for an audio system, the MM7's can get you there without limitations.
and even though i can't imagine anything sounding better than my big darts with that new dart pre, those Lamm ML3's you lusted after with your Q7's would mate perfectly with the MM7's, or any other amp you might choose. the class D bass amps 'mimic' the character of the main source amps for top to bottom seamlessness of sound.
as far as the professional installation by qualified personell question; i would suggest that you contact them directly and ask them those questions. i know that they sell Evolution Acoustics in Europe and have dealers there.
http://www.evolutionacoustics.com/
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