New Spectral/MIT cables

ack

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Let's have this thread as an FYI on the anticipated new Spectral/MIT cables. As of this writing, the following info comes from MIT, and is really so fresh that even dealers may not be aware right now:

Speaker cables: Spectral has endorsed the Matrix HD 60 as the successor to the UL-770 Series II. This same product can be purchased from any Spectral dealer, as the UL60 Series III

Interconnects
:
The interconnects are still under the listening test (they passed all electronic tests) at Spectral, and we have not heard back from them at this time. The two recommended interconnects are the Matrix 36 and Matrix 50 as the likely successors for the 330ULII and 350ULII. All were designed and tested on Spectral gear, provided by Spectral.
 

1rsw

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Jul 21, 2010
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Thanks for the information, ack. As you know from my previous comments, this is an issue I have been quite curious about. What I would like to know is if they endorse moving up the line for increased performance, ie are the Matrix SHD 120 going to help or hurt! I have mixed feelings about this from my personal experience but as a whole suggest that yes it will. Same with ic's as I moved from the Matrix 50 to the Oracle MA-X and find steps forward in most areas.
 

ack

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I think I have posted this before, but long ago, on my personal inquiry to Spectral, the response was that the Oracle MA ic's and speaker cables were also approved on top of their own branded versions - but NOT others (like the Magnums; the current HD series did not exist back then). Since the local dealer is actively using the Matrix HD 90 and MA-X occasionally, I have to assume they are also compatible (electrically), though not _necessarily_ approved (sound-wise), but one cannot be certain. In general, I think they will only endorse a specific set of cables that do not also break the bank. In other words, how can you endorse a $12K cable (Matrix HD 90) for a $10K amp (the 260 or even the less expensive ones) when the HD60 (aka UL60 Series III now) will do just fine, at half the cost. Or to put it another way: just call them up about using the cables you are thinking about.

But as you said, "mixed feelings" is how I would also describe moving up and down the MIT line; frankly, I have used stronger language, like "tone controls". Let's not also forget the old adage: is it better, or is it different.
 

1rsw

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Jul 21, 2010
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I think I have posted this before, but long ago, on my personal inquiry to Spectral, the response was that the Oracle MA ic's and speaker cables were also approved on top of their own branded versions - but NOT others (like the Magnums; the current HD series did not exist back then). Since the local dealer is actively using the Matrix HD 90 and MA-X occasionally, I have to assume they are also compatible (electrically), though not _necessarily_ approved (sound-wise), but one cannot be certain. In general, I think they will only endorse a specific set of cables that do not also break the bank. In other words, how can you endorse a $12K cable (Matrix HD 90) for a $10K amp (the 260 or even the less expensive ones) when the HD60 (aka UL60 Series III now) will do just fine, at half the cost. Or to put it another way: just call them up about using the cables you are thinking about.

But as you said, "mixed feelings" is how I would also describe moving up and down the MIT line; frankly, I have used stronger language, like "tone controls". Let's not also forget the old adage: is it better, or is it different.

Logical stuff ack, especially looking at cable cost vs electronics cost. It's really an issue with MIT overall, pricing is just out of hand on the upper tier stuff. I say that but at the same time I also cannot seem to assemble a system that performs near my goal without them. A true love hate relationship.

BTW, I have an extra set of Matrix 50 if anyone is interested :) I need to sell off everything I can say the voices in my head telling me somehow I must have the DMA 400's....
 

ack

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Ahh, another Spectral addict :D
 

ack

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First of all, why are you hanging out on audioaficionado... Second, the ignore function on many online fora is a great tool; I started using it here too. And finally, NoahG's post http://www.audioaficionado.org/377384-post24.html is worth repeating here, as extremely relevant and accurate:

Here's what I was told by a Spectral Dealer:

"Whereas other Spectral Audio components (i.e. their preamplifiers and digital source components) may be used with any other brand of equipment, Spectral mandates that their non-Universal amplifiers be driven by a Spectral preamplifier to ensure reliable operation. Spectral Universal amplifiers however may be driven directly by any brand of preamp, D-A, or surround sound processor. In addition, Spectral amplifiers need to be used in conjunction with the proper Spectral-approved MIT interconnects and speaker cables. These usage guidelines are now a condition of Spectral's warranty on their amplifiers. There are several reasons for these guidelines:

Because of their wide bandwidth, Spectral amplifiers can amplify high frequency signals in the MHz range at massive power levels. Therefore radio frequency noise must be kept out of the amplifier. The MIT interconnects contain RF protection, and Spectral preamplifiers are stable at these high frequencies.
Unlike most all solid state preamps, Spectral preamplifiers are true discrete designs, are DC coupled, and can output the high current that the (non-Universal) Spectral power amps are designed to be driven by. Other brands of preamplifiers often use integrated circuits or other devices which will probably not be able to drive the amplifier properly.
As part of their stability design, Spectral amplifiers use an output network found in the proper MIT speaker cables. (Spectral has found that by placing this network close to the load, i.e. the speaker, they can achieve superior results.)
What will happen if you don't follow these guidelines? Well, it's a probability thing. You may not encounter any problems—or you may encounter premature failure of some components in the amplifier. Or (worst case) your amplifier may suffer severe RF problems, and you will have to pay to have all the output devices replaced (which is expensive). Therefore, we highly recommend that you follow Spectral's warranty and operational guidelines."

THIS IS NOT AN INVITATION TO FURTHER DEBATE THESE CLAIMS OR WHY ANYONE HERE DOESN'T SUBSCRIBE TO THESE GUIDELINES, IN THIS THREAD
 

1rsw

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Jul 21, 2010
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A friend of mine (Madfloyd) has some stuff over there I'm following so I peer in from time to time. What pissed me off most about that discussion is questioning the integrity of RF and KJ, 2 guys I consider at the top of the list when it comes to integrity. If your going to do that you damn well should have some real strong basis. Ok, enough of that!!

Another off topic question, are the new amps going to be at RMAF? That was actually part of why I was on AA. Madfloyd brought up going last minute and now I'm sort of interested.
 

FredTam

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Oct 17, 2012
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I am planning to upgrade my pre-amp from Hovland HP-100 to Spectral DMC30SS - S2 in a few month, waiting for my year end bonus for the time being ! Eventually I will get the Spectral DMA-260 as well to push my Wilson Audio Sophia 3. Don't think I can spend too much on interconnect and speaker cables. Inquired my local dealer and they are still selling and suggesting the old MIT/Spectral cable like 330 and 750 or something like that. I just need something below 10K for both interconnect and speaker cables and not to worry about upgrading that in the near future and spend more time and money on music. Any suggestions ? I never used MIT cables before so I have no clue. Thanks.
 

ack

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Get the 350 II interconnects and 770 II speaker cables - the ones references in the original post as "being replaced". The dealers still suggest those because they are much more reasonably priced.
 

edwardce

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FredTam, Welcome to the world of Spectral audio equipment! It is the right place to be in my opinion. I used the UL 350 II interconnects and UL 770 II speaker cables for many years and they are very good sounding cables. This March, with guidance from Terry at Overture, I replaced them with Matrix HD 60speaker cables and Matrix HD 36 interconnects. These are the cables that Spectral now recommends and there is no comparison in sound with the older ones. There is much more information, easily heard, but not emphasized. The subtle clues that reveal the performers technique and the instruments "color" are revealed like I have never heard before. The bass is much more solid and powerful. All around much truer to the sound of music, and not "HiFi" sounding at all. If possible, once you have your pre and power amplifiers, try different models of MIT that are Spectral approved and judge for yourself.
 

FredTam

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Oct 17, 2012
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Thanks for your advice, Ack.
I truely think this is the way to go in terms of cost effectiveness.
I will do another audition with that set up when I will be back to New York in 3 weeks.
 

FredTam

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Oct 17, 2012
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Thanks Edward.
May I know which MIT models are being approved by Spectral ?
By the way, do you spin vinyl ?
As by discarding the Hovland HP-100, i need to look for a phono stage, what I have in mind are :
Herron - tube phono stage
Parasound John Curl - do not remember the model number.
keep using the Hovland HP-100 and run tape output to Spectral DMC30SS which I will be getting in a few months.
Any suggestion ?
 

edwardce

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Oct 7, 2010
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FredTam, I think your Spectral dealer will be well aware of the MIT cables that are approved for use with Spectral products, I know mine is. The cables that I bought are not extremely expensive, 6K for 8' speaker cable and 3K for 1m interconnect. I rejoined the vinyl playing world recently and am in a similar situation as you. Luckily, I had kept my ML-7A preamp, it has a very good phono section and I am using it as you suggest you could use the Hovland. The reviews of the Parasound JC 3 are very good and I think it would be a good value. However, I am reluctant to buy audio equipment that uses IC chip gain stages and it does. I hope that you enjoy the Spectral DMC 30 SS II as much as I do mine!
 

ack

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Just in time for our friend FredTam, I now have the HD60 speaker and 50 interconnects at home for head-to-head comparison, and it will be easy... The ICs are balanced, therefore I can run them to the amps alongside my single-ended 350II, then just A/B the input on the amp side (the gain is exactly the same). One obvious observation about the speaker cables is that the wire "hose" itself is much thinner than the original 770II by more than a quarter inch in diameter. I really don't like the impedance matching switch on the ICs; in fact it feels very cheap; I assume if they are ever approved by Spectral, that version will feature no such switch.
 
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FredTam

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Oct 17, 2012
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Thanks Edward.
I will check with my dealer when I am going to do another audition in early December and inquiry about the cable as you suggest as I believe the price is right for me.
While for phono stage, I will keep using the Hovland for the time being until I have the DMC-30SS in place for at least 6 months and see how it goes as I am to accustom to the sound of Hovland and may be a tube phono stage like Herron is the way to go. As I am sure once I get the DMC-30SS, acquiring DMA-260 will not be too far away. Let's hope my year end bonus will not be disappointing.
Thanks.
 

ack

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I forgot... around here we have to prove we actually have the things we claim

IMG_5853.jpg
 

dan31

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Jul 22, 2010
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I may need a report on those balanced cables. I'm having a "discussion" with my wife about where my system will be in the house. I have a dedicated room for now, but may need to move into a larger space. This will require longer ic's between the pre and amp. I'm interested in the xlr connection as the longer the cable the more it favors balanced. Cheers!
 

ack

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I love A/B tests where switching involves a delay of 2-3 seconds (with the Spectrals, you just flip a switch on the back of the amp), or even none when someone else is doing the switching for you... First of all, the gain between single ended and balanced is NOT the same as I claimed earlier. I measure 0.181V with balanced and 0.193V with single ended, and the difference is clearly audible if you listen carefully. Matching levels is impossible.

So initial impressions of the interconnects, with the original 770II speaker cables in place, playing RR Britten Sinfonia da Requiem: the "older" 350UL II have clearly a little heftier bottom end to these ears, the Matrix 50 is drier and lighter in the bottom octaves, seemingly lacking about 1dB over a wide range - BUT, it could very well be the output level difference. However, bass drums and timpani sound more realistic with the 350IIs, no matter what the output level. Now that might only mean that the Matrix 50 is really meant to be paired with the Matrix HD60 speaker cables; don't know yet... One might also call the 350 a little thicker, but on the other hand drier is drier, which may also give the false impression it's faster. In the end, the rendition from the 350IIs and these speaker cables is superior. In the rest of the band, I can't tell a difference in these first few hours. It will be interesting to see how things might change with the HD60 speaker cables. The observations were exactly the same with Charpentier's Te Deum on Harmonia Mundi and other material. From this early vantage point, there is absolutely nothing "old" or "wrong" with the "older" interconnects. More to come...
 

edwardce

Member
Oct 7, 2010
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Ack- with all due respect, you are comparing apples to oranges when you go between balanced and single ended interconects on Spectral components. There is at least the added circuitry to convert single ended to balanced in the preamp plus the different signal path in the amplifier. Don't forget that these signal paths within your pre/amp are not broken in. Also, I will be totally surprised if we see the Spectral name on balanced interconnects. No doubt the new MIT speaker cables and interconnects are DESIGNED to be used together. Still, it is interesting to follow your journey.
 

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