Moving to a new house - acoustic treatment for the "man cave"

stevekale

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Aug 8, 2012
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Yes, moving. Newborn and the wife is adamant we move from my open plan 3 story house to a more practical London house with bedrooms and walls. Ok, I agree it makes sense but the room I will be allowed to place my much-hated audio gear in looks like an acoustical nightmare. 16'1 x 13'6 (4.9 x 4.12 metres) according to the plan, there are two entrance/exit doors at the rear of the long walls and a fireplace jutting into the "front" short wall creating a recess into each front corner. (I hope that creates something of a mental picture.) Walls are solid, load-bearing, brick and plaster with the front wall exposed, painted brick (no plaster) and the right side wall has an window midway down the wall. The floor is hard tiled. I am renting so there's a limit to what can be done. I'm looking for some advice on acoustical treatment. I've been admiring the portfolio images from Jeff Hedback's site, particularly those incorporating RPG Skyline products.

I will be running a 5.1 setup for movies and obviously stereo for CD/high-res audio. The speakers I have are Egglestonworks Andras for the front left/right which run down to about 18Hz. The centre channel sits low on the floor and is the Andra Center (basically the top half of the left/right speakers). Egglestonworks Rosa (22Hz) speakers sit as surround. www.egglestonworks.com I have a Rel Stentor II subwoofer (15Hz or so) and I guess I'm wondering where this should sit vis-a-vis any absorption panels. (All expensive stuff I bought when I was younger and more foolish.) Three-person couch (may change this to 2 1/2 person) facing a 60in Pioneer Kuro standing on a table before the fireplace with main power amp and centre speaker below it. Flat weave rug on the tiled floor. I'm not sure I will be able to adhere to the 38% rule until I get the equipment in there.

RPG products seem to be readily available here and there is a UK manufacturer. I'm not sure about GIK or Realtraps.

I was thinking along the following lines. RPG make the BAD Panel which I could floor stand behind the main speakers. These would hide the recesses to an extent. The question is "how effective are they?" At the first reflection point on the left wall, I was thinking of a few RPG Skyline diffusers - the look cool and are functional? Not sure what can be done re the window except some sort of accoustical drapes? Rear wall, how important? (Especially if one had to prioritise.) RPG Modex Plates? All adds up quickly. Corners above the doors at the rear and in behind the BAD Panels? Are foam-based products like those from RPG or Vicoustic any good?

Thoughts appreciated. I'm after something that will have modern aesthetic appeal and well as getting the job done.

Regards

Steve
 

slowGEEZR

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Sep 20, 2010
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Steve, I'd say you've got a challenge ahead of you. My room dimensions are similar to yours, 14'6 x 15'6, if I remember correctly. With your brick walls, I would expect the sound to be very reflective, so absorbers are definitely a requirement. GIK Tri-Traps will work wonders for the front corners, as they would tend to fill in the uneven spaces on either side of the fireplace. Also, GIK makes panels with any artwork you can imagine, just go to their site and pic out what you want. However, if I lived in Europe, this is the company I'd be looking at for sound treatment.... http://www.vicoustic.com/VN/default.asp

Unfortunately, they don't have distribution over here in the U.S., but talk about having aesthetic appeal! Anyway, good luck with the new room. I'm sure some others will chime in with ideas for measuring your sound in order to get the right product.
 

stevekale

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Aug 8, 2012
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Cheers. The recesses are a foot or more deep. The fireplace (which can't be used so no issues plonking a tv in front of it) runs about a third of the wall, from memory, and projects into the room. (I need to do proper measurements when I can next get access to the house before moving in.) That's why I'm thinking floor standing panels that would bring the wall flush so-to-speak. A dealer I touched base with in the UK sells both RPG and Vicoustic. I don't think GIK is distributed in the UK.
 

Bruce B

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Apr 25, 2010
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The recesses to the sides of the fireplace seem to be a great candidate for ASC tube trapes.

For the brick on the front wall, you can certainly hang trapes in front of it or even just use a heavy tapestry or oriental rug. I'd certainly put an area rug on the tile floor.
 

amirm

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Apr 2, 2010
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Here are some quick and opinionated pointers: :D

1. With one sub and no EQ you are going to have wrong bass performance. You can put acoustic treatments there but likely not enough to ever get smooth response. Suggest getting at least one other sub and place them in the mid points of walls (whichever two you can). See this article: http://www.madronadigital.com/Library/BassOptimization.html. You almost don't need any bass traps if you follow all the advice there!

2. You need to get overall room "reverbration" time (RT60) down to about 0.4 seconds. Hopefully you have a carpet with a thick padding. This is important in eliminating the timber change from the floor reflection. It also contributes a lot to reducing RT60 since there is so much of it. But likely will not be enough. Likely place to add more absorption is back and front walls. You can do this in stages. Measure the room and keep adding until you get there.

3. You are on the right path with diffusers on left and right reflection points. There are expensive diffusers that are transparent. RPG makes them for example. As you noted, a curtain may bring some relief. Make sure it is thick but breathable material (cotton, etc.).
 

stevekale

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Aug 8, 2012
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Interesting article. I can identify with the idea that multiple subs will help balance the lower levels throughout the room. This probably also has implications for how I ought to set crossovers to the Rel - if at all - given the range of the Eggworks speakers. But how does this relate to reflections muddying the sound? Even if I have just one listening spot I care about (my wife can't tell the difference between SD and HD video) I still have to deal with reflections, both high and low, no? On the cards for purchase at some point is the forthcoming new DSP and Dirac Live module for my Theta Casablanca III HD. But again, I understand one must deal with reflections. In summary, I take away from your article that multiple subs help spread the listening sweet spot and room equalisation such as Dirac Live can smooth the response curve, but doesn't all the stuff bouncing off the walls need to be tamed for clarity and sound stage?

With respect to the tiled floor, I was planning on having an underlay underneath the flat-weave rug but I wouldn't describe it as thick - it also won't go wall to wall. (That reminds me, I should measure the rug...)

Any views on BAD Panels generally and behind the front L/RT speakers in particular? I like the look of the RPG Skyline tiles for the left wall or something similar from Vicoustic.

The ASC Tube Traps certainly seem rather expensive - maybe if I building a room/house.

Appreciate the guidance/info guys.

PS: not sure how I am going to go about measuring RT60 without engaging a sound/acoustic engineer to do a full-on room study.
 

Bill Hart

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May 11, 2012
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Steve, i started a thread here a couple months ago called 'The Next Room' and there were some great ideas and suggestions. Take what you can use. I haven't started yet, I get to my new locale in January, but won't be building out for a while until I've bought a place and can get started in earnest. Good luck. Half the battle is in the planning.
 

stevekale

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Aug 8, 2012
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thanks - I tried to find that thread but couldn't. I now also see that I probably should have posted this in the Room Acoustics sub forum. I've been absorbing a lot of the good information there.
 

stevekale

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Aug 8, 2012
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Here is a sketch of the room layout:



I'm not sure why I can't use the "insert image" button. (I get an error message saying this isn't a valid image file.)

The box in the middle of the room is my "seating area", there are two doors in the rear corners (opening inwards) and the front wall is unflustered, painted brickwork.

What's not clear to me is whether one would place the listening line at 38% of 4.9m or 4.9m less the brickwork fireplace indentation.

Also things will get rather cramped with 5 speakers in there but I have no choice.

Mod Edit: I fixed the image for you. You need to put img tags around it or select the button that inserts an image, NOT URL.

Ah thanks!
 
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JackD201

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Where's the door?
 

stevekale

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Aug 8, 2012
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two of them at the rear, opening inwards (i.e. where the quarter circles are drawn)
 
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microstrip

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Here is a sketch of the room layout:
(...)

As you have the sketch, send it to Art Noxon of Acoustic Science Corporation or other people known for their expertise you can trust that fits your budget. They will provide you with a complete solution for your room.
 

Gregadd

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You are using the metric system?
 

stevekale

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Aug 8, 2012
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the measurements are centimetres, yes. Does anyone still use inches? :p Now more seriously, ideas and commentary appreciated. I need to check again the width of the doors as obviously their swing is a constraining factor for rear speaker placement. At the moment I have placed the listening point 38% of the length from the rear wall to the brick fireplace (which runs floor to ceiling) from the rear wall obviously. The "brick shelf" runs down to the floor and so my centre speaker will sit in front of it underneath a table holding the 60" (oops!) plasma. I may put the plasma on the shelf but the ledge is rather narrow...
 
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stevekale

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Aug 8, 2012
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Can I perhaps ask some specific questions on speaker placement:

1. given I have a Theta CB III HD and can manage delays, how critical is it to maintain the orientation I have depicted in the chart? For example, could/should I set the main speakers a bit further back (they'd still be well off the back and side walls)

2. I have depicted an orientation for a single sweet spot. In reality, at least for a while, the "seating position" is two Balzac chairs sitting side by side. I've seen some suggestions that the axis of the main speakers should cross in front of the two listeners in this situation (right speaker pointing to the person seated on the left and vice versa). This seems odd to me. Thoughts? http://audiophysic.de/aufstellung/beispiel_e.html

3. How critical is the 120 degree angle for the rear speakers? Would I be better off trading a wider angle to gain distance between speaker and listening position?

4. I'm still completely undecided as to where to place my Rel Stentor II and my actual equipment (CB III, rear and centre amps etc). Ideas?
 
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