12AX7 Pre Amp Tubes Available But NOS and Expensive

Jazzbo · Sep 29, 2012

12AX7 Pre Amp Tubes Available But NOS Are Expensive

As I've looked at all of the great suggestions you all have been kind enough to provide, it appears that the NOS tubes are the more prominent. I don't see many reviews that feature low noise sweet sounding tubes other than the NOS tubes. In other words no reviews on tubes below $100 dollars. It seems that no one I have found is making good sounding pre amp tubes, in particular, the 12AX7 tubes. I've got to say, I do appreciate all of the help forum members have given me on this quest to find the holy grail of low priced good sounding tubes. I am still looking. Thanks everyone.

jazzbo

LL21 · Sep 29, 2012

Jazzbo said:
As I've looked at all of the great suggestions you all have been kind enough to provide, it appears that the NOS tubes are the more prominent. I don't see many reviews that feature low noise sweet sounding tubes other than the NOS tubes. In other words no reviews on tubes below $100 dollars. It seems that no one I have found is making good sounding pre amp tubes, in particular, the 12AX7 tubes. I've got to say, I do appreciate all of the help forum members have given me on this quest to find the holy grail of low priced good sounding tubes. I am still looking. Thanks everyone.

jazzbo

Do not know about the tube you are looking for. But JAN Philips 6922 is about 19 bucks each and, aside from consistent problems with microphony...it is a stunner of a tube. Highly liquid, smooth, musical, relatively nuanced with very good extension and good but perhaps not propulsive bass.

Jazzbo · Sep 29, 2012

Hello lloydelee21,

Thanks for your response. I will certainly take a look at the JAN Phillips 6922 and see what happens. I will also purchase a pair of
TUNG-SOL ECC803 (12AX7). Thanks.

jazzbo

LL21 · Sep 29, 2012

Jazzbo said:
Hello lloydelee21,

Thanks for your response. I will certainly take a look at the JAN Phillips 6922 and see what happens. I will also purchase a pair of
TUNG-SOL ECC803 (12AX7). Thanks.

jazzbo

Good luck...just be careful. The JAN PHilipps 6922 can be very microphonic...the good thing is if you choose to buy an EAT Tube damper (19 dollars each but they last 'forever') then that problem should go away...leaving you with the beautiful sound of the tube. good luck.

Mendel · Sep 29, 2012

Jazzbo said:
As I've looked at all of the great suggestions you all have been kind enough to provide, it appears that the NOS tubes are the more prominent. I don't see many reviews that feature low noise sweet sounding tubes other than the NOS tubes. In other words no reviews on tubes below $100 dollars. It seems that no one I have found is making good sounding pre amp tubes, in particular, the 12AX7 tubes. I've got to say, I do appreciate all of the help forum members have given me on this quest to find the holy grail of low priced good sounding tubes. I am still looking. Thanks everyone.

jazzbo

You don't have to spend $100+ each for good 12ax7s. Look on Canuck Audiomart, Audio Asylum classified, Audiogon. I have had OK luck on e-bay (look for vendors with at least 500 transactions and 97%+ positive feed-back that allow for returns) but these days the bidding has gotten crazy high. Sylvania long grey plate and black-plates, RCA long grey and black plates, Raytheon blackplates, GE long plates are often available for less than $100 pair. Avoid Mullards, Telefunkens and Amperex if you are on a budget. They are good tubes, but not worth the premium over the American tubes. Don't be afraid to buy used tubes as long as they test well, premium OS 12ax7 last a long time. Nice to have a good tester of course.
If you can do the sub, try a 5751. There are boatloads of GE and Sylvania 5751 going for 10 to 15 bucks a tube. I would avoid new production small signal tubes--the good ones cost like NOS and are not as good, the low priced ones sound like..........well you get the picture.
Said this before on this forum, if you really want to find some great tubes on the cheap, find a hamfest near you and make some friends. The best way to avoid paying retail and build up a stash.
Good luck and happy listening!

MylesBAstor · Sep 30, 2012

lloydelee21 said:
Do not know about the tube you are looking for. But JAN Philips 6922 is about 19 bucks each and, aside from consistent problems with microphony...it is a stunner of a tube. Highly liquid, smooth, musical, relatively nuanced with very good extension and good but perhaps not propulsive bass.

6922=6DJ8, not 12AX7.

MylesBAstor · Sep 30, 2012

tomelex said:
And hey, you dont need too big a stash. 12ax7 easily last more than 7 years running 100% of the time. I worked with a lot of tube radar and navigation gear, that used this common tube, and they were very reliable. Of course, it does depend on how much feedback is used in the circuit and all that, but I am gently suggesting that one does not need to have 100 of the darn things, if your unit uses 4, stash four, and be good for decades to come.

That is so wrong as to be funny. Maybe some specially selected, top secret government tube but NO currently made 12AX7 will last two years running constantly. And the biggest thing that you don't even think about is that how long a tube lasts does not equal sound quality. How long a tube sounds good is but a fraction of how long it will glow for. The biggest tip off of a tired tube (that still measures good on most tube testers) is a loss of dynamics. Tube still works but sounds way too mellow.

LL21 · Sep 30, 2012

lloydelee21 said:
Do not know about the tube you are looking for. But JAN Philips 6922 is about 19 bucks each and, aside from consistent problems with microphony...it is a stunner of a tube. Highly liquid, smooth, musical, relatively nuanced with very good extension and good but perhaps not propulsive bass.

MylesBAstor said:
6922=6DJ8, not 12AX7.

Yes! Sorry if my original post was not clear...that's what i meant when i said i dont know about the tube OP was looking for...12ax7. Was just sharing that there are inexpensive tubes that produce great sound...thanks for clarifying, Myles.

Mendel · Sep 30, 2012

MylesBAstor said:
That is so wrong as to be funny. Maybe some specially selected, top secret government tube but NO currently made 12AX7 will last two years running constantly. And the biggest thing that you don't even think about is that how long a tube lasts does not equal sound quality. How long a tube sounds good is but a fraction of how long it will glow for. The biggest tip off of a tired tube (that still measures good on most tube testers) is a loss of dynamics. Tube still works but sounds way too mellow.

I agree Myles, but that is one of the biggest differences between new issue and old stock. They don't make them like they used too! Hi quality American and European tubes from the 1950's and 60's used materials and coatings that are just not available anymore (and given the toxicity of some, perhaps for good reason), and were assembled by hand for the most part by highly skilled and trained craftsman. Modern tubes from China and Russia just can't compare, especially those going for less than $20 or $30 a tube. Economically they can't be made as good for that kind of cost. And even the expensive "premium" tubes don't have the anode and cathode materials of the past so they don't last.
I must take issue with your comment regarding tubes that test good but don't sound good. You have to do several tests to confirm if a tube is good. Just testing the mutual conductance is not enough. You have to test for gas, shorts, and for "life" or "extreme conditions". This last test to me is key and really tells you about the strength (life) of a tube. In my experience, any tube that passes all those tests will sound new. I have had tubes that test good on the MC test, but the meter drops like a stone in the life test. These rarely sound very good. I have tested many Telefunken and other quality tubes from the 50's and 60's with many thousands of hours on them that test new on all the above tests and sound fabulous. Tubes like this can and do last for 10 years or more in equipment and still sound new.

Jazzbo · Sep 30, 2012

Hello all,

Just returned from church and noted several emails regarding this thread. I thought I had made a mistake asking additional questions regarding how to proceed to purchase good to extra-good 12AX7 tubes. My questions have generated additional important and very worthwhile comments. I have also got to buy a few good to extra-good 6SN7's and 5AR4 tubes as well. However, it may be that based on what I've read from persons on this forum who have actual experience, I may not be able to get inexpensive tubes that will last long and sound good. Obviously, the NOS tubes are very costly and it would be very difficult for me and perhaps some others to buy these tubes. In the mean time I will just have to buy what I can afford within the $50 to $100 dollar range until I can save funds to buy the NOS stuff.

Although I've seen some (what look like bargain) NOS tubes on Ebay, I will not take that chance. It appears to be very easy to get ripped off there so I will get the tubes I can afford from a legitimate store for now. The reason I am asking my tech audio designer to build my tape head pre amp it so save funds while getting a unit with great sound. I want to thank everyone who chimed in to help this newby. I am just looking to get the very best sound I can afford. Thanks so much.

jazzbo

Bill Hart · Sep 30, 2012

Given the investment in have in the equipment, and my interest in getting the most I can out of it, I'm willing to pay a premium for the best NOS I can. That said, I appreciate Mendel's insight into tubes that are not so much on the radar. Yeah, the fantasy of meeting the aged widow of the old radio repair guy, who takes you to the attic and shows you cartons of NIB NOS tubes.
I've been rolling E810Fs in the past week, not a tube on most people's charts. And, even though I'm not a complete neophyte when it comes to tubes, I learned that older Mullards of this type, marked on the glass as made in Great Britain, are likely US made Amperex. So, unless you really know your stuff, or are willing to just buy odd lots of tubes on the cheap and have the time to experiment, I'm ok with paying a premium for a top tube from a reliable supplier.
I have largely stayed away from new tubes altogether, not because of failure rates, but because of sound.

Jazzbo · Sep 30, 2012

Good Sunday afternoon Mendel,
You make good points as have others regarding my plight. However, buying used tubes is more than I can feel comfortable doing. There are a number of things that can go wrong with tubes to cause them not to sound like they did when new. There are several important areas of a tube that must be tested if it is to work well in a circuit. And of course much would depend on the person selling the tubes whether they tested good in all areas. That's one of the reasons I wanted to buy new tubes. I will have to check to see if I can subsitute a 5751 for the preferred 12AX7. Along with other areas I've been advised to look at, I will take a look atCanuck, Audio Asylum and Audiogon to see what's up. Everyone on this forum has been more than great about leading this newby towards making good choices as I do tube hunting. Thanks so much sir.

jazzbo

Mendel · Sep 30, 2012

Jazzbo said:
Good Sunday afternoon Mendel,
You make good points as have others regarding my plight. However, buying used tubes is more than I can feel comfortable doing. There are a number of things that can go wrong with tubes to cause them not to sound like they did when new. There are several important areas of a tube that must be tested if it is to work well in a circuit. And of course much would depend on the person selling the tubes whether they tested good in all areas. That's one of the reasons I wanted to buy new tubes. I will have to check to see if I can subsitute a 5751 for the preferred 12AX7. Along with other areas I've been advised to look at, I will take a look atCanuck, Audio Asylum and Audiogon to see what's up. Everyone on this forum has been more than great about leading this newby towards making good choices as I do tube hunting. Thanks so much sir.

jazzbo

Good Sunday to you Jazzbo!
One last point for you and others reading this thread. Do you really believe all the tubes sold by Internet tube sellers are really and truly NOS never ever been used? 50 and 60 year old tubes that just sat in their boxes in some corner of some storage room but now have miraculously been liberated to see the light of day? While I am sure that something like this does happen VERY occasionally, in my opinion the vast majority of "NOS" tubes have been used at least sometime in their life. This is not necessarily bad--used small signal tubes from the best companies (RCA, Sylvania,Raytheon, Mullard, Telefunken, Amperex, etc.) are much cheaper than the supposed "NOS" and can sound identical and can last for years. Don't be afraid to buy used, it is much cheaper to find out what you like that way.

Bill Hart · Sep 30, 2012

Mendel said:
Good Sunday to you Jazzbo!
One last point for you and others reading this thread. Do you really believe all the tubes sold by Internet tube sellers are really and truly NOS never ever been used? 50 and 60 year old tubes that just sat in their boxes in some corner of some storage room but now have miraculously been liberated to see the light of day? While I am sure that something like this does happen VERY occasionally, in my opinion the vast majority of "NOS" tubes have been used at least sometime in their life. This is not necessarily bad--used small signal tubes from the best companies (RCA, Sylvania,Raytheon, Mullard, Telefunken, Amperex, etc.) are much cheaper than the supposed "NOS" and can sound identical and can last for years. Don't be afraid to buy used, it is much cheaper to find out what you like that way.

Agreed re NOS really means 'used' but tests well, assuming a reliable source.

Jazzbo · Oct 1, 2012

whart said:
Agreed re NOS really means 'used' but tests well, assuming a reliable source.

Hello again Mendel and everyone here,

I understand your point and don't believe that the majority of tubes sold are NOS, sitting in their containers for years until I come along. However, as has been pointed out, I do believe that legitimate tube stores are selling NOS tubes that I can be assured are as they advertise. And, I know a few of these tube stores also advertise on Ebay, but I don't trust Ebay for a lot of what is sold there.

I've been provided a great deal of tube buying information and feel comfortable starting out to actually buy some 12AX7's, a few 5AR4's and a couple of 6SN7's. I am looking forward to going on this journey and being successful based on all of the great information I've received on this forum. Early on I was advised to take a look at the new Tung-Sol's. I've read a few reviews that were positive, but were based on musician guitar pre amps. While I understand that tubes or yesterday were made better than tubes of today, but there must be some good tubes being made today that are not made in China. So, my efforts have been to find audiophiles who have purchased the newly made tubes and have found a brand or two that sounds good. What a great forum this is. I know I can always come here to get the help I need and that's saying something

Bill Hart · Oct 1, 2012

Jazzbo said:
Hello again Mendel and everyone here,

I understand your point and don't believe that the majority of tubes sold are NOS, sitting in their containers for years until I come along. However, as has been pointed out, I do believe that legitimate tube stores are selling NOS tubes that I can be assured are as they advertise. And, I know a few of these tube stores also advertise on Ebay, but I don't trust Ebay for a lot of what is sold there.

I've been provided a great deal of tube buying information and feel comfortable starting out to actually buy some 12AX7's, a few 5AR4's and a couple of 6SN7's. I am looking forward to going on this journey and being successful based on all of the great information I've received on this forum. Early on I was advised to take a look at the new Tung-Sol's. I've read a few reviews that were positive, but were based on musician guitar pre amps. While I understand that tubes or yesterday were made better than tubes of today, but there must be some good tubes being made today that are not made in China. So, my efforts have been to find audiophiles who have purchased the newly made tubes and have found a brand or two that sounds good. What a great forum this is. I know I can always come here to get the help I need and that's saying something

Just remember, what guitar players like is 'tube crunch,' where the rectifiers sag, and they get that gnarly distortion

MarinJim · May 27, 2013

Upscale Audio has some killer Philips 5AR4's at a great price!

Steve Williams · May 27, 2013

I would call Upscale Audio for anything "tubes"

Johnny Vinyl · Jun 12, 2014

I just purchased a Jolida JD9v2 phono preamp that uses a pair of 12AX7 tubes. I'll be picking up the unit on Saturday and can let you know what tubes are inside. I've been told that changing tubes would be highly beneficial and am looking for some suggestions. I am a complete novice when it comes to tubes, so anything you have to say will be received with much appreciation.

I've linked you to Parts ConneXion as they are only a 20-minute drive from my place, and they seem to have a good variety of tubes in stock.

Thanks!

Phelonious Ponk · Jun 12, 2014

Search the shops that supply guitar players. NOS 12AX7s -- RCA, - GE, Mullard, Telefunken, Amprex, Sylvania, Raytheons...they all run $35 - $60. I recall seeing one Mullard at $75. There are vendors all over the net. If these guys were smart, they'd open second websites with "high-end" store fronts and doubled prices.

Last time I paid a hundred bucks apiece for tubes it was a pair of Visseaux 6v6s, NOS from 1951. And they were yummy...

Tim

12AX7 Pre Amp Tubes Available But NOS and Expensive

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