Best Isolation Systems for Amps
- Thread starter brianherlihy
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Isn't the whole discussion complicated
But isn't ultimate isolation from vibration actually isolation methodologies not mechanical grounding
Electron microscopes etc use isolation not grounding
For grounding I assume there is transfer of kinetic energy from high mass system to low mass system and then dissipation via frictional methods
Spikes into floor of sufficiently high mass with minimal friction element I would have thought would lead to reflections
This would depend on the varying acoustic impedance of the substrates used
Isolation can be by a variety of methods but most use isolation via tuned springs or air
Some by magnetic levitation
I have found air strikes suspension superior in my system having tried the first two methods
Interested in others thoughts
But isn't ultimate isolation from vibration actually isolation methodologies not mechanical grounding
Electron microscopes etc use isolation not grounding
For grounding I assume there is transfer of kinetic energy from high mass system to low mass system and then dissipation via frictional methods
Spikes into floor of sufficiently high mass with minimal friction element I would have thought would lead to reflections
This would depend on the varying acoustic impedance of the substrates used
Isolation can be by a variety of methods but most use isolation via tuned springs or air
Some by magnetic levitation
I have found air strikes suspension superior in my system having tried the first two methods
Interested in others thoughts
May I take this opportunity to ask gary what he thinks works in isolation of amps? his essay on speakers was enlightening. obviously you do not get the strong horizontal forces with amps as you do with speakers. It is not a pure coupling play either as I have witnessed recently: When I removed the pucks under the SRA's the whole stage collapsed.
I use two Vibraplanes under my SS Pass Labs XA160.5 mono blocks, pre-loaded with steel ballast plates, and hooked up to a quiet compressor. These sit on birch plywood platforms that I made which provide a level and stable surface. They are very effective.
Yes.
Many people unfortunately confuse one with the other, e.g. put spikes on everything.
The more fundamental thing that needs to be addressed first is vibration isolation from seismic disturbances.
Once that is done, you have several other options for more localised disturbances.
Yes, this has been my experience. Though this is not the case with my amps, my turntable's four feet have steel balls at the base of each tower. These help to "ground" or drain internal vibrations into the massive 136 lb steel ballast plate plus 150 lb steel Vibraplane, on which the 120 lb turntable rests. The Vibraplane isolates the turntable from seismic disturbances, the SME suspension towers and belt isolate the platter from the motor, and the ball bearings drain vibrations down and away from the turntable system. At least in theory. In practice, it sounds good and seems to be an effective system.
This is exactly my thinking
I have added isolation to my main components, preamp, phono, and Amps, and in addition I have done what Peter A has done then amp stands which are light weight and ground, my Lamms are probably a similar weight range to the Pass Labs.
IMHO this made a big difference, and reduce bass boom enormously
I have added isolation to my main components, preamp, phono, and Amps, and in addition I have done what Peter A has done then amp stands which are light weight and ground, my Lamms are probably a similar weight range to the Pass Labs.
IMHO this made a big difference, and reduce bass boom enormously
There was that recent video I think by Townshend about speaker isolation
I performed the same test at home, with concrete slab, and marble tiles.
I was very surprised how much a foot fall caused vibration in equipment using a seismometer in my iPhone
Since i have 5 subwoofers that give an in room down to 16hz easily, I am impressed by wall flexing on loud passages!
I performed the same test at home, with concrete slab, and marble tiles.
I was very surprised how much a foot fall caused vibration in equipment using a seismometer in my iPhone
Since i have 5 subwoofers that give an in room down to 16hz easily, I am impressed by wall flexing on loud passages!
Peter, I had no idea your amp stands are so elaborate! Is that really necessary for transistors?
I have to be honest with you –– amp stands just don't turn me on.
Right now (ah, when the stereo was in business) I use simple Target amp stands. I put under each foot of the chassis of the VTL MB-750 a semi-circle sorbothane disk. Each corner of the VTL sits on a sorbothane disk and the sorbothane disks sit on the Target amp stand.
I have no idea how I came up with this. I think my thinking was that I want the amp on sorbothane to dissipate airborne vibration impinging on the amplifier, and to isolate the amp from vibration coming up from the floor.
So, WBF members, what do you recommend for floor-sitting tube amps (with lots of tubes)?
I guess Lamm amp owners are happy with CMS amp stands? (Like the ones Steve just got?)
I have MC601 monoblocks sitting on 3cm granite slabs that rest on stacked hockey pucks. The floor is wood laminate glued to concrete. I'm sure to be missing something but I can't imagine how I could benefit from something more elaborate given my stuff sits on concrete...??
Peter wants you to put them on Vibraplanes! 
I have the same floor you do: hardwood floor over concrete. (Most of the floor will be carpet over acoustic layer/carpet pad over concrete, but I am taking a variation on Mike L's suggestion to keep a large front section hardwood floor without carpet (for sonic and equipment movement reasons) by having a large strip without carpet on which I will be able to place and move easily the speakers.)
I have the same floor you do: hardwood floor over concrete. (Most of the floor will be carpet over acoustic layer/carpet pad over concrete, but I am taking a variation on Mike L's suggestion to keep a large front section hardwood floor without carpet (for sonic and equipment movement reasons) by having a large strip without carpet on which I will be able to place and move easily the speakers.)
Previously my Amps were on zoethecus stands with Stillpoint 5's and then Stillpoint 6's before I finally switched to CMS with Black Diamond shelves. I won't switch again. There is some good science behind these and IIRC Joe has two separate patents in the technology. In fact Joe doesn't call these shelves but rather instruments. There is a break in period with these. I have my TT and phonostage on CMS Black Diamond and am waiting for delivery of a totally new CMS rack that will house my entire front end gear.
Peter wants you to put them on Vibraplanes!
I have the same floor you do: hardwood floor over concrete. (Most of the floor will be carpet over acoustic layer/carpet pad over concrete, but I am taking a variation on Mike L's suggestion to keep a large front section hardwood floor without carpet (for sonic and equipment movement reasons) by having a large strip without carpet on which I will be able to place and move easily the speakers.)
Ron, I know you are teasing me. I'm actually agnostic as to what solutions others want to try. The Vibraplanes simply work for me in my environment. They were recommended to me by Syntax on Audiogon. At the time, he had Vibraplanes under his Lamm mono blocks.
I also have one lolli column under each amp/speaker location and two under my turntable/equipment rack coming up directly from the bedrock under my unfinished basement to the underside of the subflooring in my living room. This reduces floor bounce, and supports the massive weight of the gear. The 1790s central beam and joist construction would crack otherwise.
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Ron, To me, the Vibraplanes are necessary under my amps. I was, as my friends were, quite surprised at the degree of improvement they made. Yes, they are SS amps, but still, the difference was clearly audible.
Amp stands don't turn me on either. That was a pretty funny statement.
The guy who first recommended that I try the Vibraplanes actually had them under his Lamm amps in Germany. His moniker is Syntax on Audiogon. We shared many emails about this.
I don't know if you could benefit from something more elaborate. However, one thing to consider is that if the concrete floor you are talking about is a slab on grade rather than a suspended slab with a space below it, is that it will transmit very directly vibrations that are in the ground up into your equipment. I think that is in part what was happening when I installed lolli columns directly below my heavy audio gear. I needed the lolli columns for extra support so that my old wooden floor structure would not crack under the new load. I think ground borne vibrations were transmitted up to the floor and then into my gear. Adding isolation reduced the vibrations reaching my gear and dramatically improved the sound.
The other issue, of course, is draining internal vibrations generated inside the gear down and out into some mass below. One solution for this is coupling it to the structure below that supports it.
I don't think there is one solution to this, but many different possible solutions.
Rockitman's system is on rigid racks in his basement grounded to his concrete slab floor. And yet, he reports great improvement with the addition of the active Herzan isolation platform under his already isolated with air TechDas turntable resting on an HRS custom platform. So it seems that floor borne vibrations are getting through his concrete slab and up his rigid Adona equipment rack. I think he even did a demonstration for me showing the Herzan LED sensors being activated without music playing. It was quite an impressive demonstration.
IME granite makes a poor audio shelf, it tends to ring and harden certain frequencies, it's too resonant for this purpose even when layered with rubber or felt.
david
Amp stands matter Ron, you don't have to go to CMS there are many good ones at much lower prices out there. The Target stands, if its the old ones you're using with wood not the glass shelf aren't bad at all but try them without the sorbothane.
I never had the desktop Vibraplane only the lab table versions which are massive and solidly built and can be used without any air. I found the addition of active air suspension under electronics made a positive difference even on these heavy tables but in case of high mass, solid turntables the addition of air messed up the sound. YMMV with suspended or lower massed record players which I never tried.
david
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