A question about phonostages and cartridges!

Johnny Vinyl

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May 16, 2010
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If one has a phonostage that only accepts MM cartridges, what would happen of you mounted a MC on your tonearm? Would you get no sound?

And no, I'm not contemplating this.....just wondering.
 

jadis

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Apr 28, 2010
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Interesting question. Though I have not tried it myself but from my observation of other MM preamps matched with external step up transformers, I would say you will get very little sound even with the rotary volume at 3 o'clock if an MC is plugged into a MM only preamp. The step up transformer boosts the signal up, when used in between them.
 

microstrip

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May 30, 2010
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John,

Most MC cartridges have typical output voltage around 1/10 of the output of a MM and are optimized for a load between some tens and one thousand ohms, while MM stages have typically 47kohms input impedance.

Most probably you would get a sound with little dynamics, some noise and poor bass control. I had this problem with the old Audio Research SP8 - it needed a step up transformer to be used with MC's.
 

mep

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If you mount a high output MC cartridge you should be ok. If you install a low output MC cartridge it will just be noise/distortion.
 

Johnny Vinyl

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A friend has the Octave V70SE with phono upgrade, which he is using with his new Project Perspex and Blue Point EVO (MC). The phono upgrade on the Octave is either one or the other and not both, according to the 6Moons review, and he's barely getting any sound. I'm thinking he has the MM board, which is his problem.
 

Johnny Vinyl

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I thought that the Blue Point was a high-output MC, and if so, the MM input would work with it. If he's barely getting any sound, something else could be wrong.


He has the Blue Point Special EVO III....

From the Needledoctor site:

Sumiko Blue Point Special Evo III is a high output moving coil phono cartridge with an open generator design and alloy cantilever. The output is 2.5 mV, Chemically coated aluminum cantilever with 0.3mm x 0.7mm elliptical stylus. Ultra low-resonance open generator design. Resonance controlled mounting system provides the lowest mechanical impedance. Highly compatible with most modern tonearms.

Low mechanical impedance mounting system ingeniously dissipates resonance.

So yes, it should work.
 

mep

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His phono section may be broken. Either that or he has his gozindas backwards.
 

cjfrbw

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Apr 20, 2010
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I am using a .4 mV MC cartridge with an MM input in Santa Cruz. It is an old Sony TA 4650 with a VFET MM input stage. I then route the signal into a Yamaha surround receiver for ambience processing, and it works and sounds absolutely wonderful. I have tried also using an adaptor with the headphone output of the TA 4650, which is taken off the VFET push pull amplifier stage, and it adds about 20 db of gain, but it sounds great either through the preamp output or the headphone output, either way, no audible noise or liability that I can discern.

There is nothing that says theoretically it would not work out OK to use an MC cartridge since you still get the RIAA equalization, you may need extra boost down the chain, and I would imagine it would be cartridge dependent. Lower gain MC cartridges would be subject to experimentation. Every doubling of voltage is about 6db of gain.
 

Johnny Vinyl

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I just found out some more info...

He has his TT connected to his OCTAVE, but he has his Integra Pre/Pro connected to it. That would be his problem as he's running his Octove as a power unit, not an integrated amp. The TT would need to be connected to the Integra. Correct?
 

Bill Hart

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May 11, 2012
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If you mount a high output MC cartridge you should be ok. If you install a low output MC cartridge it will just be noise/distortion.

Bingo. I used to use a high output MC with my old ARC SP-10mkii.
 

Johnny Vinyl

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As of this morning, and after double-checking every connection, and taking the Integra out of the equation, still nothing. He bought the Octave directly from the manufacturer as there were no units in the U.S. available with a phono section. Could this potentially be an issue? To make sure it isn't something with the TT, which I doubt, I suggested he bring his TT to his dealer and have them connect it to another unit. Or he bring in his Octave and try another TT. Process of elimination. This is so weird.
 

mep

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There are only two possibilties at this point: either the cartridge is shorted out or his phono section is broken.
 

Johnny Vinyl

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There are only two possibilties at this point: either the cartridge is shorted out or his phono section is broken.

Seems logical to me. He's bringing in his TT to a dealer morning. I'm waiting to hear back.
 

flez007

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Aug 31, 2010
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Regarding the original topic, one can listen an MC cartridge with a MM phononstage adding an SUT, depending on the cartridge output, one might need 20, 30 or eveb more dBs up, and just as important as that, the input impedance on the phono stage should see an MM cartridge load (typically 47Kohms).
 

Johnny Vinyl

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May 16, 2010
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Regarding the original topic, one can listen an MC cartridge with a MM phononstage adding an SUT, depending on the cartridge output, one might need 20, 30 or eveb more dBs up, and just as important as that, the input impedance on the phono stage should see an MM cartridge load (typically 47Kohms).

What's an SUT Flez?
 

mep

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Step Up Transformer
 

Johnny Vinyl

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