A/v receivers

mep

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
9,481
17
0
I'm in the market for a new A/V receiver. I started doing some looking and was dumbstruck to see brand new models wasting back panel real estate with S-Video inputs. I thought that video format died out in the stone ages. I'm looking for a good receiver with at least 100 good watts, at least 3 digital inputs, and dual sub outputs. I also want the EQ room correction feature. Any thoughts would be appreciated.
 

NorthStar

Member
Feb 8, 2011
24,305
1,323
435
Vancouver Island, B.C. Canada

mep

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
9,481
17
0
Denon 4311 is what is on my radar; best mix of features and the prices is ~$1200 - $1500 if you can find one. XT32, dual subs, all the bells and whistles.

Thanks Don. I currently have a Denon AVR 3600 so I'm familiar with the brand and believe in Denon. My 3600 has been very reliable for many years. The 4300 is now the 4300ci. I will probably buy that model as soon as I find the best price.
 

NorthStar

Member
Feb 8, 2011
24,305
1,323
435
Vancouver Island, B.C. Canada
---Denon is good, but;

1. The Denon AVR-4311CI (38 pounds) is very hard to find.
2. And if you're lucky enough to find one, the best price is around $1,200
3. And is being replaced by the AVR-4520CI (less than 17 kg)!

* You should check my thread and look at the info I gave about the Onkyo TX-NR818.
Plus what people have to say about it over at AVS Forum (Joe, aka joerod, Keith, aka kbarnes701, and few other experts).
Take your time, and make a wise choice. ...Don't take my word for it, follow the true leaders. :b
 
Last edited:

DonH50

Member Sponsor & WBF Technical Expert
Jun 22, 2010
3,946
305
1,670
Monument, CO
My only issue with Onkyo is their horrid rep for quality control over the past few years. By all accounts they make a full-featured product that is well-regarded when it works (which it probably does for the majority of owners).

The 4520 is going to cost quite a bit more as a new model. The 4311 at $1200 is a bargain, roughly half the price from a year ago and well under it's top-flight competition. The biggest drawback is it is getting hard to find.

I did my research a few months ago but other things intervened so I could not make the purchase. Still thinking hard about one, however. I do not need the features in the 4520. I am also a bit dissappointed by Pioneer's lack of improvement to MCACC compared to Audyssey's XT32 and SubEQ.
 

NorthStar

Member
Feb 8, 2011
24,305
1,323
435
Vancouver Island, B.C. Canada
---Don, to be totally frank with you, Onkyo ain't the only A/V Receiver's manufacturer to have some few 'dents' over the last few years. ...They are all in the same both equally; Denon, Marantz, Pioneer, Yamaha, Sherwood Newcastle, Arcam, Anthem, NAD, Rotel, ...

* Audyssey XT32, that I give you; look for a receiver that has it. Right now, only Denon and Onkyo/Integra have some models who do. The Den 4311 is not the only game in town; just check people like joerod (Joe) and kbarnes701 (Keith), Bill Mac, batpig (member here too), FilmMixer, pepar (member here too), markus767 (Markus) too, over at AVS; these guys have a lot of experience with the best of the best, and the Den 4311 is one of them, among the Onk 818, 1010, 3010, 5010, 5009, 3009, 5008, 3008, and all Integra A/V receivers equivalents.

And I am not bias for one second; I just want the best among other bests, and these are it, in my book.

One time I had a Denon component that just died, just like that, pouf! ...Within just few months (brand new too).

Can you categorically say that one brand is more reliable than another? ...Based on what? What you read on some forums by some members having experienced it?
Or make a wise assessment based on the best people with a lot of experience between several of these brands?
That's why I mentioned jerold, Keith, and Markus, and Bill too; all very intelligent people too, and with the ultimate goal of helping/informing others in the best way that they learned themselves.
These are the type of people I learned to trust.

I also have great confidence in myself; and have some concrete experience as well.
And I am extremely informed on this because I read EVERYTHING about it; Best A/V Receivers money can buy.
...Performance, Value, Features, Ergonomics, Designs, Build Quality, and Reliability.
At the end I balance everything in its right context, and I just want one of the Best.
Because I don't believe there is ONE Best, only for each individual person, not for the entirety of people.
You see...

Gotto balance wisdom with science.
 
Last edited:

DonH50

Member Sponsor & WBF Technical Expert
Jun 22, 2010
3,946
305
1,670
Monument, CO
I am sure they all have their problems. It's an opinion based on the research I did; your opinion based on your research differs and that is fine. That gives Mark two excellent choices to review (at least).

I do not think you can adequately assess reliability via Internet Forums. One problem is that most people are going to post, or post more, when they find a flaw than when everything is working fine. I go to Consumer Reports (which does better on cars and washing machines than AVRs IMHO, but they do provide a relatively unbiased viewpoint) and various similar sites. Unfortunately, I found little reliability data for any AVR. For that matter, not for high-end DSLRs or any number of other things that are not in very high demand. Seen any reliability data for ARC, or DartZeel? :) I have noticed fewer "Onkyo-bashing" threads in the past 6 months or so, but have not really looked for them nor for the Denon threads. There are always a few for any given brand. It takes a lot of time to wade through them and ascertain if there are real QA issues, or simply a lot of people who haven't read the manual.

There is a group of folk on the Denon threads who have been through many other brands as well. Since a lot of this is based upon personal experience, again the sample size is small, and one bad unit out of a thousand that ends up in the hands of a key reviewer can bias the perceptions of many users. This is true for any brand and any subset of reviewers, and is another problem with Internet (or really any) review. And with my personal experience; I have had bad apples from a couple of brands but it is hard to condemn a model, let alone an entire brand, based on just my experience. In the end it comes down to perception, like so many other things, and these days all to often that means how many threads on how many forums I read since that is the primary source of info. Heckuva' way to run a business, but there you have it...

One thing I meant to ask is price range. There is a gap from the $500 models to the upper-end $1500-$2500 (list) models to the multi-$k units like Bryston, Krell and Meridian. I did not consider the higher-end models from the latter companies because they were way out of my price range.

If I was starting today I would define the features and price I want, then review specs for the AVRs from all the top companies in my budget to narrow down the models, then start on the various reviews and forums to try to assess the user experience. My opinion could be different today, I don't know.

Why are wisdom and science mutually exclusive? Not saying I have a corner on either...
 

NorthStar

Member
Feb 8, 2011
24,305
1,323
435
Vancouver Island, B.C. Canada
---Nice post Don, comin' from an expert. :b

* A lot of people, by the way, separate wisdom from science. ;)

___________________________

You're right; Mark has two good choices now, Denon and Onkyo/Integra (with Audyssey MultEQ XT32, the real deal).

Consumer Reports, no thank you Don, not for Bob. :b

And we already know Mark's price range ($1,000-$1,500) roughly. ...Because he likes that Denon 4311 that you previously mentioned. :b

Me, I was simply adding the Onkyo TX-NR818 because it also has Audyssey MultEQ XT32, and is easily available, and is even less money than the Denon (about $400 less street), and is better build, and has better ergonomics. :b
And according to the people who compared both these receivers, they both sound good.

Don, of all the electronica in the world, A/V Receivers are my biggest interest because they are the bleeding edge of the latest technological advancements, and then they spread to surround sound processors from all over (up to $30,000+ per unit). I am huge on pre/pros (multichannel) and ergonomics, parts quality, implementation, Auto Room Correction & EQ, Analog/Digital conduits, and all those pipelines for better sound through their final destination; our ears. :b

* I created a special thread on A/V Receivers with the hope to help people and discuss all the ins and outs of all the audio derivatives; like mentioned above.
But here at WBF the interest is more on analog TT, R2R, 2-channel high-end stereo, expensive albums (LPs), Room treatments devices, and all that other jazz stuff (quite a vast repertoire actually, and even including the latest global news).

...All very cool stuff; the best members of the entire Internet, smart bunch of people, best discussions around, extremely knowledgeable bunch, real experts, vast subjects covering, and just simply the Best site for Audio passionates.
Best philosophy too, and which is fully accepted, adapted, and respected. :b

The Den 4311, Mark, if you can find one, is a great unit (A/V receiver). :b
 

mep

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
9,481
17
0
The new Onkyo TX NR3010 is starting to look pretty good.
 

NorthStar

Member
Feb 8, 2011
24,305
1,323
435
Vancouver Island, B.C. Canada
---Now you're talkin'! ...It does 11.2 simultaneously, weights 55 pounds, have a serious power transformer (four total actually), real stuff heatsink (not Denon's type of bend cheap metal), and the most up-to-date features in the world! THX Ultra2 Plus certification (the Denon ain't), two state-of-the-art video processors, 4K ready, ISF video certification, better DACs than the Denon 4311, three (3) TI Aureus DSP chip processors (high computing power; and this is exceptionally good, and extremely rarely seen even in high-end separate pre/pros), ...

Well, it has so much stuff that best is to simply check around where they give you all the internal parts numbers, a visual look at its internals, and feedbacks from people like joerod (Joe) and kbarnes701 (Keith) over at AVS.

Bill Mac is real happy with his Denon 4311, as compared to his previous unit; the Onkyo PR-SC886 pre/pro.
But I don't think Bill has any first hand experience with the much more up-to-date Onkyo 08 and 09 A/V receivers Series from their top tiers (3008, 3009, 5008, and 5009). ...The 3010 is just the latest, baddest, meanest, and good looking too, of them all! :b ...Only the 5010 with its toroid is above, but the money difference seems to point out in favor of the 3010 for value wise.

I'm real glad Mark that you're taking your time and investigate around.
 
Last edited:

FrantzM

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
6,455
29
405
Hi

I second the Denon choice and like the features of the Integra, The 4311 CI has some very interesting features among them IP (via Ethernet) and 2-way RS-232 control (not plug and play mind you but interesting ) these are rich features. Now just to make things a little more complicated :) What about Emotiva? A litle more than a receiver but their new Pre/pro with the Tact Room Correction System + their five channel amps look like a good deal. That pushes things out of the previous budget thought but Mark may have some amps laying around so .... ;)
 

NorthStar

Member
Feb 8, 2011
24,305
1,323
435
Vancouver Island, B.C. Canada
Hi

I second the Denon choice and like the features of the Integra, The 4311 CI has some very interesting features among them IP (via Ethernet) and 2-way RS-232 control (not plug and play mind you but interesting ) these are rich features. Now just to make things a little more complicated :) What about Emotiva? A litle more than a receiver but their new Pre/pro with the Tact Room Correction System + their five channel amps look like a good deal. That pushes things out of the previous budget thought but Mark may have some amps laying around so .... ;)

-----Are you nuts! :eek: ;)

One, the XMC-1 is all vapor and without TacT for at least another 6 months to a year!
Plus Emotiva with their track record based on the previous surround processor, the UMC-1, is despicable at best!
Tons of incompatibility issues with HDMI and TV satellite and Cable boxes.
Plus the bass management is totally ineffective because it is not up to standard and therefore compromising the overall sound quality big time!
And the EmoQ Room correction & EQ system is a total mess! ...You cannot use it! It just ain't working properly and it's just a poor man's Graphic EQ! Whouahhhh! :eek:
...It'll make things much worst if you use it.
But it plays louder because Emotiva makes sure of that (the higher gain in all their components); so people believe they play better and nicer... You know..., the higher the volume level for a certain position on the Master knob control, the better sound quality people think it is .... That is only one of their various tactics.
[Do you know how the capacitor's banks are implemented and related to the main power supply from their amps? ...And their Voltage?]

Just forget Emo surround processors. But Mark, if he needs more power than what the
Onkyo TX-NR3010 can deliver (and I truly doubt that), he can buy a used 5-channel amp with much better clarity, detail, bass tightness, than the Emo amps.
And the price would be roughly the same.

Like he can get the Onkyo 818 (over 40 pounds), and mate it with a used 5-channel Rotel amp.
...ATI, NAD, Bryston, McIntosh, Sherwood Newcastle, Integra's own, etc.

The Onkyo TX-NR3010 is a much more reliable unit and with an excellent preamp section (high-end), high level of surround processing power, plus a truly powerful amp section (proven bench tests). The video section is state-of-the-art.
Audyssey top-of-the-line implementation (XT32, Dynamic & Volume, DSX, and Pro-Ready).
Dolby Volume, THX Loudness Plus. Two separate Subwoofer's calibration and EQ.
...And Streaming the entire WORLD! :b

...Tra-la-la all the best jazz music around; true, available, solidity, and no fooling around with words preachers and all type of world charlatans! :b
 
Last edited:

NorthStar

Member
Feb 8, 2011
24,305
1,323
435
Vancouver Island, B.C. Canada
The new Onkyo TX NR3010 is starting to look pretty good.

-----So far, in this thread, this is the best post (above quote) of them all! :b

The Denon 4311 is second after, IMHO.

And Emotiva, just forget it; words, words, words, and tons of issues.
{If you want power on the cheap, go ahead their amps are cheap, and in sound quality too.}

Is power value? ...It depends of who you ask to. ...For me, sound quality is the real true love value. :b

Power and money means dick (just look at the NHL right now)! ...And words of vapor about the future is worth less than the air surrounding a outhouse.
 
Last edited:

NorthStar

Member
Feb 8, 2011
24,305
1,323
435
Vancouver Island, B.C. Canada
* http://www.avsforum.com/t/1418005/onkyo-3010-vs-denon-4311

** http://www.avsforum.com/t/1416914/tx-nr3010-5010-info

__________________

Onkyo TX-NR5010 internals:
[Exact same as the 3010 except for the toroidal vs E-I core main transformer in the 3010]

----------


__________________

Fun stuff: :b

 

mep

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
9,481
17
0
I bought the TX-NR3010 today. I hope I like it. I also bought the USB Wi Fi doggle. I wonder if it really will stream 24/192 flac files.
 

NorthStar

Member
Feb 8, 2011
24,305
1,323
435
Vancouver Island, B.C. Canada
I bought the TX-NR3010 today. I hope I like it. I also bought the USB Wi Fi doggle. I wonder if it really will stream 24/192 flac files.

-----Wow wow wow! You gotta let us know all about it Mark!
You just bought one of the best receivers in the world!

* As for 24/192 streaming of flac files; I just don't know Mark. Did you ask around if it can do?

Man you are gong to be in heaven! I truly believe.

I'm just curious Mark; where and how much?
 

mep

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
9,481
17
0
I bought it on Ebay from an authorized Onkyo dealer for $1899 which includes shipping. I downloaded the owner's manual which is quite intimidating since this thing does everything except shine your shoes. It supposedly also will playback DSD files, but I'm not sure exactly how that works. Onyko recommends that you hook the receiver straight to a router as you may have issues trying to stream 24/192 files over Wi Fi. It looks to be an incredible machine with so many features that it boggles the mind. This is a far cry from my Denon AVR 3600.
 

NorthStar

Member
Feb 8, 2011
24,305
1,323
435
Vancouver Island, B.C. Canada
---I am very familiar with the Denon AVR-3600 (44 pounds).

* The 3010's manual is almost like an encyclopedia! :eek:

** Less than two grands for a top receiver is amazing! ...And right now too.
Denon's own AVR-5308CI costs $6,700 (with Audyssey MultEQ XT32 upgrade) MSRP!
The Arcam AVR600 retails for $5,000! ...Nice sound, but very problematic.

*** I just wanna know EVERYTHING you have to say about your new purchase. :b
And if you need any help in setting it up, Audyssey, the mic positions, etc., I'm your man!
And if you want the best links (if you don't know them already) on the proper settings; I know where they are.

My experience is with the best sound performance from Stereo and Multichannel (Onkyo/Integra products). ...And Audyssey (settings and all that jazz) ....

My inexperience is from downloading, streaming, and all that Internet blues. I keep my PCs separated from my Audio/Video 'business'. That is my own personal choice (freedom), and it ain't a rule to abide by. :b

**** I could describe few of the parts inside your 3010, and it'll blow your brains out!
The Denon 4311 is nice, but the Onkyo 3010 is much nicer, and with more processing power, more amplifier power, better parts (DACs, transformers, heatsinks, DSP chips and more of them, etc.), much better build quality (18 pounds heavier), much better looks (in and out), much better ergonomics; just a better overall receiver with clear and smooth sound/vision performance.

Ok, words, my own words; let's just see how YOU, feel about it now that you own it and that you're going to play with it.
And here you have the best member from this site (me, I think) to assist you on that task towards top-notch asudio/video performance from all the proper settings.

You might not be always sympathetic towards me, but trust me; I'll give you the very BEST, beyond your own imagination. ...Mark, that's just who I am.
 

About us

  • What’s Best Forum is THE forum for high end audio, product reviews, advice and sharing experiences on the best of everything else. This is THE place where audiophiles and audio companies discuss vintage, contemporary and new audio products, music servers, music streamers, computer audio, digital-to-analog converters, turntables, phono stages, cartridges, reel-to-reel tape machines, speakers, headphones and tube and solid-state amplification. Founded in 2010 What’s Best Forum invites intelligent and courteous people of all interests and backgrounds to describe and discuss the best of everything. From beginners to life-long hobbyists to industry professionals, we enjoy learning about new things and meeting new people, and participating in spirited debates.

Quick Navigation

User Menu

Steve Williams
Site Founder | Site Owner | Administrator
Ron Resnick
Site Co-Owner | Administrator
Julian (The Fixer)
Website Build | Marketing Managersing