Science in the Service of Art is My Job --

tonmeister2008

WBF Technical Expert
Jun 20, 2010
210
6
0
Westlake Village,CA
Hello Everyone:

I just joined this forum at the invitation of one of the moderators.

I am currently Director of Acoustic Research for Harman International a large audio company involved in the professional, consumer and automotive audio spaces. Our brands include JBL, HK, Infinity, Revel, Lexicon, AKG, and Mark Levinson.

I'm responsible for directing the Corporate R&D group, where we work on things like developing a multichannel acoustic measurement system, working on methods to tame acoustical interactions between loudspeakers and rooms, developing a binaural room scanning system, creating new listener training software to teach people how to become better critical listeners, and most importantly, developing state of the art listening test methods and facilities for evaluating and testing the sound quality our products (as well as our competitors')

Prior to working at Harman, from 1985-1993, I worked at the Acoustics and Signal Processing Group at Canada's National Research Council in Ottawa where I worked with Dr. Floyd Toole on research related to loudspeakers, rooms, microphones,etc. Prior to that I studied music (piano), which eventually led to Masters and PhD degrees in Sound Recording (hence, by Tonmeister pen name).

I also write a blog on the science of audio called Audio Musings. The article I just wrote today summarizes some recent listening experiments that show evidence that sound quality is not lost on Generation Y. For me, this is very encouraging as there is hope that the future of sound quality in sound reproduction will continue on, in spite of what the media is reporting these days.

I look forward to future interesting discussions.

Cheers
Sean Olive
 

Ron Party

WBF Founding Member
Apr 30, 2010
2,457
13
0
Oakland, CA
A very sincere thanks from me for accepting my invitation. We are extremely fortunate to have someone with your experience joining the conversation.
 

Gregadd

WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
10,553
1,787
1,850
Metro DC
Welcome Sean. I suppose the ABX/DBT will never go away. Now that we have another ally on this forum. Intellectual discussions are always fun and stimulate the mind. I suppose there are many roads to grandmas house. I'm just to far down the road to turn back. Confident I will get there soon. Not the forum for that discussion. I am sure the debates will began soon.
Again welcome.
 

Ron Party

WBF Founding Member
Apr 30, 2010
2,457
13
0
Oakland, CA
I also write a blog on the science of audio called Audio Musings. The article I just wrote today summarizes some recent listening experiments that show evidence that sound quality is not lost on Generation Y. For me, this is very encouraging as there is hope that the future of sound quality in sound reproduction will continue on, in spite of what the media is reporting these days.

I look forward to future interesting discussions.

Cheers
Sean Olive
I started a new thread on what is (at least for me) a very interesting subject:

http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?792-Dr.-Sean-Olive-New-Evidence-That-Gen-Y-ers-Prefer-Accurate-Sound-Reproduction
 

amirm

Banned
Apr 2, 2010
15,813
38
0
Seattle, WA
Sean, it is wonderful to have you here. Actually, it is a privilege to see you contribution to our forum! Little substitutes for hard learned lessons through real experimentation and research which you and Floyd exemplify.
 

Nicholas Bedworth

WBF Founding Member
May 7, 2010
312
0
0
Maui, where else?
Sean,

Once again, very glad to see you online here. We (moderators) were hopeful you'd be able to "attend". There's nothing like experimental data and scientific observations to guide the discussions.
Nick
 

terryj

New Member
Jul 4, 2010
512
0
0
bathurst NSW
I'm responsible for directing the Corporate R&D group, where we work on things like developing a multichannel acoustic measurement system, working on methods to tame acoustical interactions between loudspeakers and rooms, developing a binaural room scanning system, creating new listener training software to teach people how to become better critical listeners, and most importantly, developing state of the art listening test methods and facilities for evaluating and testing the sound quality our products (as well as our competitors')


Cheers
Sean Olive

Been wondering about this one Sean....do we REALLY want to be able to critically evaluate our own systems??? If we are happy with them???

Aww man, I can imagine that actually being a curse!!

Just going further, what would it achieve? Let's say that out own personal tastes will have 'little influence' on the future direction of sound reproduction, so having your training under our belt could only have two outcomes...... happy or not happy with what we own.

If I am happy now, why risk being unhappy after doing your training??!!:D

I love the work you do, keep it up and please let us know when your course becomes available to the general public yeah?
 

tonmeister2008

WBF Technical Expert
Jun 20, 2010
210
6
0
Westlake Village,CA
Been wondering about this one Sean....do we REALLY want to be able to critically evaluate our own systems??? If we are happy with them???

Aww man, I can imagine that actually being a curse!!

Just going further, what would it achieve? Let's say that out own personal tastes will have 'little influence' on the future direction of sound reproduction, so having your training under our belt could only have two outcomes...... happy or not happy with what we own.

If I am happy now, why risk being unhappy after doing your training??!!:D

I love the work you do, keep it up and please let us know when your course becomes available to the general public yeah?

P.S We only give the critical training software to consumers who have NOT already purchased Harman audio systems :)
 

amirm

Banned
Apr 2, 2010
15,813
38
0
Seattle, WA
Been wondering about this one Sean....do we REALLY want to be able to critically evaluate our own systems??? If we are happy with them???
I am not Tom but I can answer with confidence that you do NOT. Nothing is worse than knowing about flaws you didn't know about the day before. Time for a story I have told before elsewhere :).

Decades back, I worked for Sony and as an executive, I would get free loaner equipment. A the time, XBR TVs where cream of the crop so I went and got the best one on loan. I powered the thing up and thought it was the most amazing image I had seen. So I go online and see what others say about it, only to find out everyone complaining left and right that Sony was not aligning the units in factory and there picture was not right. Thinking they are crazy, I go home, put on CNN with the horizontal line at the bottom showing the reporter name not being straight!

I go to work and walk into the company store where i had befriended the lady who ran it. She had put a whole wall of TVs. I walked up to her and told her, "did you know that we don't put the quality behind producing all of these TVs?" She looked surprised and asked what I was talking about. I asked her to put on CNN and pointed out the tilted horizontal bars on all of them. You should have seen the amazed look on her face! Needless to say, I could not look at a TV the same way again. I would always notice any alignment errors which would bug the hell out of me.

While at Microsoft, I got trained on audio artifacts and as a result, I can't stand compression artifacts. You can't get me to listen to XM radio for a second for example. I rip all of my music to lossless and for portable listening where my player doesn't handle lossless, I go for 320 kbps rate. Had not been through this learning, I would have been happy with 128k and XM would sound just fine.

So no, don't go and train yourself for the sake of it. To wit, I keep thinking of creating a tutorial to train people here on compression artifacts but keep thinking, it is like teaching you to like pork fat. It won't be good for you long term :D.
 

MylesBAstor

Well-Known Member
Apr 20, 2010
11,238
81
1,725
New York City
I am not Tom but I can answer with confidence that you do NOT. Nothing is worse than knowing about flaws you didn't know about the day before. Time for a story I have told before elsewhere :).

Decades back, I worked for Sony and as an executive, I would get free loaner equipment. A the time, XBR TVs where cream of the crop so I went and got the best one on loan. I powered the thing up and thought it was the most amazing image I had seen. So I go online and see what others say about it, only to find out everyone complaining left and right that Sony was not aligning the units in factory and there picture was not right. Thinking they are crazy, I go home, put on CNN with the horizontal line at the bottom showing the reporter name not being straight!

I go to work and walk into the company store where i had befriended the lady who ran it. She had put a whole wall of TVs. I walked up to her and told her, "did you know that we don't put the quality behind producing all of these TVs?" She looked surprised and asked what I was talking about. I asked her to put on CNN and pointed out the tilted horizontal bars on all of them. You should have seen the amazed look on her face! Needless to say, I could not look at a TV the same way again. I would always notice any alignment errors which would bug the hell out of me.

While at Microsoft, I got trained on audio artifacts and as a result, I can't stand compression artifacts. You can't get me to listen to XM radio for a second for example. I rip all of my music to lossless and for portable listening where my player doesn't handle lossless, I go for 320 kbps rate. Had not been through this learning, I would have been happy with 128k and XM would sound just fine.

So no, don't go and train yourself for the sake of it. To wit, I keep thinking of creating a tutorial to train people here on compression artifacts but keep thinking, it is like teaching you to like pork fat. It won't be good for you long term :D.

Do you remember the old Sony XBR CRT televisions with the thin line across the screen about a 1/3 of the way from the top caused by the wire inside?
 

Gregadd

WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
10,553
1,787
1,850
Metro DC
Amir, There are certain things you don't want to know. In the old days movie theaters used film on reels. Despite watching hundreds of movies I never saw an image that appeared on the movie screen that let the projectionist know it was time to change reels. A television program showed it. From then it on it bugged the hell out of me.
 
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amirm

Banned
Apr 2, 2010
15,813
38
0
Seattle, WA
Do you remember the old Sony XBR CRT televisions with the thin line across the screen about a 1/3 of the way from the top caused by the wire inside?
Yes indeed. They needed that spring to hold the shadow mask. That though, was not visible from normal viewing distances. The other artifacts were.
 

amirm

Banned
Apr 2, 2010
15,813
38
0
Seattle, WA
Amir, There are certain things you don't want to know. In the old days movie theaters used film on reels. Despite watching hundreds of movies I never saw an image that appeared on the movie screen that let the projections know it was time to change reels. A television program showed it. From then it on it bugged the hell out of me.
Don't tell me what it is. I don't want to know :D.

Then again, you never want to go to NAB/IBC pro video conferences. People selling special effects gear show how all the tricks are done in movies and commercials, sometimes ahead of their release. Nothing spoils the movie than knowing how all the pieces where composited, and what mistakes were covered up, manipulated, etc. The fun of a magic trick is to not know how it is done....
 

terryj

New Member
Jul 4, 2010
512
0
0
bathurst NSW
I can well imagine the problem...which is probably why I mentioned it!

"mmmm, I love sausages'

"Ohh, would you like a guided tour of our sausage factory, from go to whoah??...animal slaughter to supermarket shelf??"

You'd be a bloody fool to agree wouldn't you?

So it's a fine line we walk here ain't it. WE don't want to suddenly become aware of flaws-either in our system's reproduction or what we play on it, eg low bit rate mp3s-BUT we would LOVE everyone else to suddenly realise how bad what they listen to is so that they become interested in quality music reproduction.

Just don't do it to us.

Are we being hypocritical??
 

amirm

Banned
Apr 2, 2010
15,813
38
0
Seattle, WA
Are we being hypocritical??
Of course. But we are also being logical :). The hobby is for enjoyment, not solving world peace. As such, if knowing about flaws makes it less enjoyable, the "logical" thing is to not volunteer to be unhappy :D.

Seriously, I think one should strive to know. I am happy that I learned about geometric distortion in those TVs. Made me want to understand what TV calibration and technology was about. Fast forward 20 years later and I am hired to lead the entire engineering team at a company building broadcast gear for the TV and special effects post production industry. Couldn't have gotten that job without knowing about video as much as I did. Knowledge is always good....
 

Gregadd

WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
10,553
1,787
1,850
Metro DC
"Knowledge is power"..."Ignorance is bliss."
 

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