MSB Diamond DAC IV Reviewed By Stereophile

arnies · Mar 1, 2013

edorr said:
Thanks guys, this is all I needed to hear to pull the trigger - I'm ordering this afternoon, and should have it up and running next week-end. The madness never ends.

Interestingly Vince @ MSB appears highly sceptical about improvements using a preamp, but thenagain, MSB does not sell preamps....

Edorr,

I have spoken to Vince at MSB as well about my listening results in comparing my 2 preamps with the Diamond volume control. I think it really comes down to the quality of the preamp that you are using in the comparison because as I said, the diamond volume control is pretty good.

Bruce B · Mar 1, 2013

edorr said:
Interestingly Vince @ MSB appears highly sceptical about improvements using a preamp, but thenagain, MSB does not sell preamps....

Mine sounds better through a pre as well.....

edorr · Mar 1, 2013

Bruce B said:
Mine sounds better through a pre as well.....

What pre are you using with the MSB? Are you running it through the Switchman or do you have something else for 2 channel? I tried a Switchman myself with my EMM labs DAC2X and was underwhelmed. I am hopefull the Ref5 SE is a few steps up.

Bruce B · Mar 1, 2013

edorr said:
What pre are you using with the MSB? Are you running it through the Switchman or do you have something else for 2 channel? I tried a Switchman myself with my EMM labs DAC2X and was underwhelmed. I am hopefull the Ref5 SE is a few steps up.

Yes, going through the Switchman.

Went to the "Music Matters" event at Definitive Audio last night. ARC was showing their new Ref 10 pre that looks SWEET!

edorr · Mar 1, 2013

Bruce B said:
Yes, going through the Switchman.

Went to the "Music Matters" event at Definitive Audio last night. ARC was showing their new Ref 10 pre that looks SWEET!

Bruce, with the kind of investment in electronics you have I sincerely believe the Switchman is a major weak link in your audio chain. Even EMM Labs says the technology is dated and left in the dust by the Pre2 (no surprise at $15 for 2 channels against $7K for 6 channels).

Did you know you can chain three Pre2 to control it as a 6 channel preamp? I'm pretty confident this will give you a performance boost comparable with any of the other big expensive moves you have recently made. Ask Ed Meitner for three loaner Pre2's and give it a whirl!

edorr · Mar 1, 2013

Bruce B said:
Went to the "Music Matters" event at Definitive Audio last night. ARC was showing their new Ref 10 pre that looks SWEET!

Which is a good thing, because the trade-in Ref5 SE I am buying is from a guy that bought the ref 10. I personally cannot accomodate two boxes anymore, otherwise I would have entertained a used VTL 7.5 III (selling for 10K on audiogon), or a BAT Rex.

Bruce B · Mar 1, 2013

edorr said:
Which is a good thing, because the trade-in Ref5 SE I am buying is from a guy that bought the ref 10. I personally cannot accomodate two boxes anymore, otherwise I would have entertained a used VTL 7.5 III (selling for 10K on audiogon), or a BAT Rex.

I am very interested in ARC because of the Bal. XLR availability. I really don't need 6-channels. Stereo will do just fine. It's just a leftover when I had this in my surround room.

edorr · Mar 1, 2013

Bruce B said:
I am very interested in ARC because of the Bal. XLR availability. I really don't need 6-channels. Stereo will do just fine. It's just a leftover when I had this in my surround room.

That makes it even easier! "Ditch the Switch" and get a top notch 2 channel pre. I suspect in your system this will be by far the highest return investment in hardware (SQ Improvement per $$$ spend) you can make.

slowGEEZR · Mar 1, 2013

Alexandre,
I find the statements regarding the QB-9 below, quite interesting. I've heard the MSB stack and it sounded fantastic, as well as the QB-9, which also sounds fantastic. There definitely is both HF and LF extension with the QB-9. I noticed that you had a subjective improvement with the MSB when you changed computers. Perhaps there was something not quite right in the original setup with the QB-9.

asiufy said:
edorr,

That comparison I can make, as I had the Ayre QB-9 here in my room for some testing, and it greatly disappointed me. It had no extension, both HF and LF, and sounded quite dull.
Initially, I was also a tad disappointed at the MSB's USB input. But on a whim I plugged a MacBook Pro instead of the usual Mac Mini, and I got the clarity back, on par with what I'm getting out of the Signature Transport via I2S input.
I'm waiting for the Diamand IV with the Femto clock, so my tests are actually being done with a Signature IV sans clock. According to MSB's page, to beat the Analog DAC, you'd need just the configuration I ordered (Diamond+clock), which is considerably more expensive. So yeah, in your situation, the Analog DAC is the better deal

alexandre

edorr · Mar 12, 2013

lloydelee21 said:
Look forward to your impressions! And congrats!

OK. Took me a little while to get the unit over here (courtesy of bank of america taking 5 days to complete a next day transfer), but the Ref 5Se is up and running. Spend 5 minutes listening and the verdict is simple. Major step up. Not subtle. The way I see a preamp is as a device that can breath life into the signal (as opposed to doing VC in the DAC), but that sucks life out of the signal (by inserting an active circuit in the signal path). With the preamps I tried to dat, the "sucking out" effect always trumped the "breathing in". Not so anymore.

asiufy · Mar 12, 2013

slowGEEZR said:
Alexandre,
I find the statements regarding the QB-9 below, quite interesting. I've heard the MSB stack and it sounded fantastic, as well as the QB-9, which also sounds fantastic. There definitely is both HF and LF extension with the QB-9. I noticed that you had a subjective improvement with the MSB when you changed computers. Perhaps there was something not quite right in the original setup with the QB-9.

Steve,

I compared it side-by-side to a dCS Puccini + U-Clock. The owner of the QB-9 admitted as much, that next to the dCS, the Ayre lacked extension at both ends. I was using a Mac Mini then, but the same computer was hooked up to the dCS. Granted, there were improvements when I hooked up the same computer to a dCS Paganini, as you'd expect, and yet another improvement when I went from the Mac Mini to a MacBook Pro.
I don't mean to put down the Ayre. It's great for what it costs. But it's also my experience that the gains with more expensive (or more advanced, if you will) gear are generally in the frequency extremes.

alexandre

asiufy · Mar 12, 2013

edorr,

Congratulations! I've never heard a DAC or player (with volume control of course) sound better straight to an amp than going through a proper pre-amp.
That's why I liked the MSB approach, since I could just leave out the volume control module, and save a few $$ on my DAC.

alexandre

LL21 · Mar 12, 2013

edorr said:
OK. Took me a little while to get the unit over here (courtesy of bank of america taking 5 days to complete a next day transfer), but the Ref 5Se is up and running. Spend 5 minutes listening and the verdict is simple. Major step up. Not subtle. The way I see a preamp is as a device that can breath life into the signal (as opposed to doing VC in the DAC), but that sucks life out of the signal (by inserting an active circuit in the signal path). With the preamps I tried to dat, the "sucking out" effect always trumped the "breathing in". Not so anymore.

Thanks! Good to know! enjoy! Have just pm'd you.

edorr · Mar 12, 2013

asiufy said:
edorr,

Congratulations! I've never heard a DAC or player (with volume control of course) sound better straight to an amp than going through a proper pre-amp.
That's why I liked the MSB approach, since I could just leave out the volume control module, and save a few $$ on my DAC.

alexandre

I have taken out a $10K modwright LS/PS 36.5 in the past because it did not better the DACs VC. Same with the EMM Labs switchman, and Pass XP-10. Ref 5SE is a whole diffent level.

Priaptor · Mar 12, 2013

edorr said:
OK. Took me a little while to get the unit over here (courtesy of bank of america taking 5 days to complete a next day transfer), but the Ref 5Se is up and running. Spend 5 minutes listening and the verdict is simple. Major step up. Not subtle. The way I see a preamp is as a device that can breath life into the signal (as opposed to doing VC in the DAC), but that sucks life out of the signal (by inserting an active circuit in the signal path). With the preamps I tried to dat, the "sucking out" effect always trumped the "breathing in". Not so anymore.

Welcome to my world.

Enjoy.

asiufy · Mar 14, 2013

Guys,

I'm not sure anymore, but I think there was somebody out there also with an MSB Diamond IV and darTZeel NHB-18NS pre.
Well, I just ran an experiment today. I took the single-ended RCA output of the DAC, and plugged them in the BNC Zeel inputs of the pre, with an adapter, and after flicking the appropriate switch in the chosen input.
And what d'ya know? Quite an improvement here! More transparent, with some very sweet HF extension.
I was curious to experiment because I noticed the output of the MSB was 50ohms, same as the Zeel input.
Now I need to find a cable with RCA on one end and BNC on the other

alexandre

microstrip · Mar 14, 2013

asiufy said:
Guys,

I'm not sure anymore, but I think there was somebody out there also with an MSB Diamond IV and darTZeel NHB-18NS pre.
Well, I just ran an experiment today. I took the single-ended RCA output of the DAC, and plugged them in the BNC Zeel inputs of the pre, with an adapter, and after flicking the appropriate switch in the chosen input.
And what d'ya know? Quite an improvement here! More transparent, with some very sweet HF extension.
I was curious to experiment because I noticed the output of the MSB was 50ohms, same as the Zeel input.
Now I need to find a cable with RCA on one end and BNC on the other

alexandre

Can I suggest you get a RCA-BNC adapter and try using 50 ohm BNC-BNC cable?

Elberoth · Mar 14, 2013

I would check with MSB if the DAC IV is able to drive such a punishing load long term. Equally well, you may fry the output stage.

asiufy · Mar 14, 2013

Good tips, both of you

Thanks, I'll inquire and report back...

LL21 · Mar 16, 2013

Elberoth said:
I would check with MSB if the DAC IV is able to drive such a punishing load long term. Equally well, you may fry the output stage.

If the MSB output is 50ohms, does that mean it is 'designed' to be able to go into the Zeel directly? Just curious to learn for future reference.

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