Kuzma 4 point

catastrofe

Member
Feb 17, 2012
106
0
16
Saint Louis
It's all set up. This is a very interesting arm... you'll see in the video. It's a different type of thought with the duel bearing and 4 point set up. Freshly set up it's producing an immense stage with pin point detail. It's very, very compelling. Very, very accurate. More to come.

Peter, can you advise the status of this video?

Thanks!
 

Brian Walsh

Well-Known Member
Jul 7, 2011
336
29
935
ttsetup.com
I understand that Elite AV Distribution will have the new Stabi M turntable running with 4Point tonearm at CES, room 29-115 of the Venetian. Franc Kuzma will be there.

I can't wait to hear (or more correctly, not hear) this new 'table.
 

Peter Breuninger

[Industry Expert] Member Sponsor
Jul 20, 2010
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The Kuzma 4point goes into editing after the Onedof table. Also, the Kuzma is having an addendum shoot on the excellent Triangle Art Signature. This table is on the efficient frontier...

triangle art signature.jpg
 

Sound Affair

Well-Known Member
Sep 10, 2012
45
1
81
That's the arm I'll likely add to my existin Kuzma set up. And, based purely on visuals, the VTA adjustment looks like the same arrangement I have on the Airline. Once it is set up, and you calibrate your standard setting (at '0' on the dial), it's just a matter of an unlocking lever on the Airline, a twist of the dial, and relocking. Easier than typing this, that's for sure. I'd have to go back to look at a pic to see if it uses a lever-style lock like the Airline. Yep, same set up, at least from what I can discern in the photos.

Whart i'm curious to whether you have compared the 4 point directly to your airline on the xl? It would be nice to have a definitive answer on which is better sounding.
 

Bill Hart

Well-Known Member
May 11, 2012
2,683
174
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Whart i'm curious to whether you have compared the 4 point directly to your airline on the xl? It would be nice to have a definitive answer on which is better sounding.
Haven't added a 4point yet, and probably won't before I relocate. I'd be curious to know the answer too....
 

Sound Affair

Well-Known Member
Sep 10, 2012
45
1
81
I'm considering the Kuzma especially the airline , how do you find it soundwise and operational wise is it tempermental? Fremmer seems to rate the 4 point higher than the cobra but has mixed comments about the airline.

"And again, one setup produced a brighter, more "hi-fi like" presentation that contained more apparent detail while yielding far less genuine detail—the latter was masked by a hard, icy overlay that excited the ears of less experienced listeners." Comments comparing the airline to the cobra. But this is just one man's opinion.

The airline is such a cool looking arm though.
 

Bill Hart

Well-Known Member
May 11, 2012
2,683
174
1,150
I'm considering the Kuzma especially the airline , how do you find it soundwise and operational wise is it tempermental? Fremmer seems to rate the 4 point higher than the cobra but has mixed comments about the airline.

"And again, one setup produced a brighter, more "hi-fi like" presentation that contained more apparent detail while yielding far less genuine detail—the latter was masked by a hard, icy overlay that excited the ears of less experienced listeners." Comments comparing the airline to the cobra. But this is just one man's opinion.

The airline is such a cool looking arm though.
I'm not entirely clear on the context of the quote, was Fremer saying that the Airline created a 'hard, icy overlay'?
Here's my experience, for what it's worth, and I think you have to take the cartridge into account in making the comparison.
I used a Triplanar (VII?, circa 2006) on the Kuzma Reference (the more conventional looking table that self-isolates) with a Titan i. When I switched to the Airline, it was in connection with the Kuzma XL (the big high mass table with no isolation), keeping the Titan i in place for a while. The bass seemed bottomless on the latter combination, with a "quiet" that made the source sound less like it was coming from a turntable. Seamless (unless the record had pops or ticks or was noisy), and very dynamic. Overall, it sounded 'bigger,' without sounding forced, or strident.
When I switched to the Airtight cartridge, the sound became richer, and the highs less 'spotlit,' to me the change in cartridge made the system less 'hi-fi' and more music.
I really can't isolate what the arm is doing, apart from the turntable, and how the cartridge contributes, beyond what i've described above, and this is based on changes that were first made in arm-turntable about 6 years ago.
The arm is very well built, once set up is not fiddly, but requires an absolutely level platform to work properly. The pump is noisy, spits oil and is generally like what you'd expect from an active air compressor. I haven't had any 'failures' with the pump, but it was a little tricky to get it set up, and it created an electrical 'snap' in the system everytime it cycled. Kuzma provides an add-on box to help electrically isolate the pump, but that didn't prevent the 'snap'. I was finally able to eliminate it over the system by plugging the pump into a 240 volt step down transformer.
So, my take on the arm is that it is very good, and that you should consider alternatives to the pump. The pump manufacturer recommended a larger compressor with a bigger air reservoir, and lo and behold, Kuzma offers that as an aftermarket upgrade for, i think $2,500. There may be other options too. The pump that comes with the arm will work, it is just more trouble than the arm itself.
The VTA setting is easy and feels very solid.
Hope that helps.
 

Sound Affair

Well-Known Member
Sep 10, 2012
45
1
81
Thanks for your thoughts whart
The quote was taken from the 07 stereophile review of the stabi xl and the airline, judging by your comments you don't find the sound bright, edgy or icy.
 

caesar

Well-Known Member
May 30, 2010
4,290
767
1,698
The Kuzma 4point goes into editing after the Onedof table. Also, the Kuzma is having an addendum shoot on the excellent Triangle Art Signature. This table is on the efficient frontier...

View attachment 6662

Fascinating post, Peter! I remember seeing that diagram in my investment classes. The guy (Harry Markowitz of U of C) actually won a Nobel Prize for coming up with that.

Very creative!!!
 

Christopher T

Industry Expert
Dec 4, 2012
75
13
315
www.artisanfidelity.com
We have been testing a Kuzma 4 point recently with a Van den Hul Colibri XGM and in my opinion, the arm is brilliant from top to bottom. Build quality and adjustability aside (both are superb) the musicality delivered is of reference caliber. Easily one of the finest tonearms I have had the pleasure of listening to over the past year while designing. IMG_2814-800-web.jpg
 

KBK

New Member
Jan 3, 2013
111
1
0
Fremer gushes over this arm. Who here is using one ? How is VTA on the fly adjustment ? How does it mount to the arm board (linn standard) ? I'm wondering if it will mount to a Graham compatible bd ( hole pattern) ? Finally for cart alignment, does it come with a pivot to spindle jig and it's own protractor for cart alignment ? TIA

I've owned two of the original stogi arms, when first available. I think they are very good for the money that I paid for them. That Franc Kuzma has been doing this for a very long time. And Fremer's no dummy.

disclaimer: I mod everything to suit. Everything.
 

Marcus

Member Sponsor
Oct 5, 2012
559
552
1,155
Lovely system Marcus, i notice you have a 4 point mounted on your Kuzma XL4 i expect you have also audition the airline also, what makes the 4 point a better arm than the airline in your opinion?

The biggest difference is in the bass. Not that the Air Line's bass is weak, it's NOT but the bass with the 4Point is much more profound, defined, developed and tuneful. On the other hand the Air Line is generally more refined, airy and the soundstage is superior.
 

Sound Affair

Well-Known Member
Sep 10, 2012
45
1
81
The biggest difference is in the bass. Not that the Air Line's bass is weak, it's NOT but the bass with the 4Point is much more profound, defined, developed and tuneful. On the other hand the Air Line is generally more refined, airy and the soundstage is superior.

Thanks for your response Marcus, i guess my question really needs to be answered individually as i have asked the same question to another 4 point owner that replaced it with an Airline his response was

"If you know the improvement in performance that a 4P brings over most other arms, i would say the step up to Airline is at least the same again. The first thing you really notice though is the linear tracking, the music suddenly sounds so much more open with better imaging, width etc and legibility improves."
 

Peter Breuninger

[Industry Expert] Member Sponsor
Jul 20, 2010
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jpetek

Well-Known Member
Feb 12, 2013
138
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Anybody compared against the 313 VTA? Same Equipment?

A dealer told me it is only the last 5%.....

Josef
 

slowGEEZR

Member Sponsor
Sep 20, 2010
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Colorado Springs, CO
One thing that struck me immediately was that the platter on that turntable was apparently moving in the vertical plane. Watch the platter and record in the first 30 seconds. Unless it was a warped record and just the periphery ring was moving.
 

mep

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
9,481
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I couldn't watch the middle video as I was getting queasy watching the cartridge dangle and swing by the tonearm wires. I always mount the cartridge to the arm first before I install the wires. I use a pair of tweezers to carefully grasp the tonearm wire connectors and slide them onto the correct pins.
 

Dre_J

Industry Expert
Mar 5, 2012
478
1
0
I couldn't watch the middle video as I was getting queasy watching the cartridge dangle and swing by the tonearm wires. I always mount the cartridge to the arm first before I install the wires. I use a pair of tweezers to carefully grasp the tonearm wire connectors and slide them onto the correct pins.

uh oh. Déjà vu ... :)

Dre
 

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