Magico Q7 + Constellation Performance series

ack

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Q7, driven by the Constellation Centaur stereo amp and Virgo line stage, dCS Puccini CD... This amplification line was favored over Spectral by the dealer, because driven by the Spectral amps the sound is a bit thin, they claimed.

To make a long story short: I think I have heard more natural and more controlled sound from the Spectral/Q5 or Spectral/Q3 combos, sound that made me want to own those systems, and cry out Wow! The Q7s appear to be tough to match with amplifiers.

The details in random order:

  • The speakers failed to disappear, in the same room and position that so many others I have heard had no such issues.
  • Resolution and dynamics are phenomenal all across the spectrum. But soundstage not as well defined as I am accustomed to.
  • They are either flat in the bass or there was a small suck-out around 100-200Hz that didn't sound natural; other combos don't have that issue.
  • Tonal balance was tipped up in the highs, very evident with sibilance, trumpets sounded a bit too bright. The sound could be characterized a bit analytical.
  • Low-end extension satisfactory, but I was expecting room shaking bass with RR organ that I didn't get.
  • More on speed: impressive, but... One of my references for attack is RR-120, Britten's Sinfonia da Requiem, the opening Lacrymosa; this piece opens with a massive dynamic attack that makes me and all the guests I've had at home literally jump up and/or blink (this was achieved with the Mundorf crossover mods I made, using apparently the same parts as the Q7). The Q7 combo was close, but just not as lighting fast, though more powerful and appropriately large sounding.
  • Specific to the Q7: the cabinet, excepting the front baffle, is not as quiet as I had expected and had assumed. Clear resonances with the knuckle test on the upper midrange module, including the top and side plates, and much worse with the rear screw-on plate; much less so in the bass cabinet. Sticking my ear to that rear plate of the top module I could hear all kinds of distorted sound. During playback, that entire top cabinet vibrates to the touch. I contrasted this to the Q3 and the Rockport Altair and Mira Grand II sitting nearby - no comparison; if you want a dead cabinet you get the Q3, Q5 or any Rockport. In fact, I even no longer have such resonances with my "stiffened" MLs (which, BTW, also feature a much stiffer woofer cabinet than the Summit X, also sitting nearby).

The sound: There is no doubt in my mind I like the Spectral/Q3/Q5 sound over almost anything I heard the Q7 achieve as driven. I didn't get the same level of natural sound and you-are-there feeling as the Spectral combos - in fact, with the Spectrals, you are there. It feels like the Q7 has exceptional potential with the right amps, but I don't know what they are. If nothing else, save for the cabinet noise, they are ruthlessly revealing of upstream components. This was also my first exposure to Constellation, and though impressive, the Performance series at least do not appear to be in the same league as Spectral.

The bottom line: the jury is still out over here as to what drives the Q7s the best. But the partial verdict on the cabinet is in, and Magico has a lot of work to do to catch up to the smaller Q3 and Q5s; there is a reason why larger speakers cost so much more to manufacture, or why I like speakers that just don't suffer from too many resonances. Though I WANT the Spectral/Q3/Q5 combo, I could not say the same about what I heard today - I would be searching for yet more appropriate amplification.
 

LL21

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Thanks for taking the time Ack. Wow...its very unusual when a company who has consistently gone thru great lengths on each of their speakers to at least demonstrate exceptional build quality...seems to miss on their flagship. I am not saying every flagship is as successful as one of the 'lesser' speakers...but still, your audition is a 'miss' by the looks of it.

Somehow, i have to hope that a 2nd chance would fare much better. Wonder what Alon Wolf uses in his own ideal Q7 setup.
 

GaryProtein

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ACK, regarding your point on tonal balance, there seems to be a trend in so-called high end, expensive ($50-200K) speakers lately. They seem to be overly bright. The "brightness" is being touted by many manufacturers as a claim for "accuracy" which is no where near the musical truth.

As you said, these speakers do NOT disappear in the room, always being easily localized. Even worse as far as real accuracy is concerned, many instruments are reproduced with harmonics that do NOT exist in real life. This is especially true with all bowed instruments, trumpets (which you mentioned), clarinets and oboes. Also, as you mentioned, sibilant sounds are also flawed in these speakers, making voices very irritating to listen to.
 

LL21

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Dec 26, 2010
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Thanks for taking the time Ack. Wow...its very unusual when a company who has consistently gone thru great lengths on each of their speakers to at least demonstrate exceptional build quality...seems to miss on their flagship. I am not saying every flagship is as successful as one of the 'lesser' speakers...but still, your audition is a 'miss' by the looks of it.

Somehow, i have to hope that a 2nd chance would fare much better. Wonder what Alon Wolf uses in his own ideal Q7 setup.

There was a photo that someone put up of Magico's own setup...the photo has now disappeared. I recognized Continuum TT, Zanden phono, Constellation Virgo/Centaur monos. I do wonder given the 'exacting' nature of Constellation and Magico...whether a Continuum TT with Zanden phono wouldn't be a better pairing than the DCS source.
 

wizard

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There was a photo that someone put up of Magico's own setup...the photo has now disappeared. I recognized Continuum TT, Zanden phono, Constellation Virgo/Centaur monos. I do wonder given the 'exacting' nature of Constellation and Magico...whether a Continuum TT with Zanden phono wouldn't be a better pairing than the DCS source.

This one
View attachment 5406
 

LL21

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aaahh!!! yes, i thought it was an optical illusion! thanks, Wizard.
 

ack

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Small world... other than the Spectral preamp I think I see in the picture, we do also have the same Khazak carpet under our dining table...
 

MylesBAstor

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ACK, regarding your point on tonal balance, there seems to be a trend in so-called high end, expensive ($50-200K) speakers lately. They seem to be overly bright. The "brightness" is being touted by many manufacturers as a claim for "accuracy" which is no where near the musical truth.

As you said, these speakers do NOT disappear in the room, always being easily localized. Even worse as far as real accuracy is concerned, many instruments are reproduced with harmonics that do NOT exist in real life. This is especially true with all bowed instruments, trumpets (which you mentioned), clarinets and oboes. Also, as you mentioned, sibilant sounds are also flawed in these speakers, making voices very irritating to listen to.

I think the problem is digital, not the speakers. :) Or the speakers are showing the front end issues. Then they put a record on the turntable and it's a completely different system. There must be something to it because more and more exhibitors at shows are using turntables (Of course, exhibitors pushing their own digital gear often don't). You have to ask why people like Richard Vandersteen never show with digital.

YMMV!
 

LL21

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I think the problem is digital, not the speakers. :) Or the speakers are showing the prThen they put on the turntable and it's a completely different system.

YMMV!

I would love to a hear a Zanden 4-box digital fronting that system.
 

MylesBAstor

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There was a photo that someone put up of Magico's own setup...the photo has now disappeared. I recognized Continuum TT, Zanden phono, Constellation Virgo/Centaur monos. I do wonder given the 'exacting' nature of Constellation and Magico...whether a Continuum TT with Zanden phono wouldn't be a better pairing than the DCS source.

Or the Nagra-T.

OTOH, think they're using the PM HDCD convertor.
 

GaryProtein

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I think the problem is digital, not the speakers. :) Or the speakers are showing the front end issues. Then they put a record on the turntable and it's a completely different system. There must be something to it because more and more exhibitors at shows are using turntables (Of course, exhibitors pushing their own digital gear often don't). You have to ask why people like Richard Vandersteen never show with digital.

YMMV!

Miles, I don't think the problem is digital or the front end. I have heard the new "high enders" with the best digital and analog sources, amps and preamps. I am confident it is the speakers that are just too bright.
 

rockitman

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Obviously performance of the speaker is going to vary on the room acoustic and treatments if any. I agree...can't blame it on digital and I bet it's a room issue rather than a speaker issue.
 

MylesBAstor

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Well just my 2 cents :)
 

Mike Lavigne

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Obviously performance of the speaker is going to vary on the room acoustic and treatments if any. I agree...can't blame it on digital and I bet it's a room issue rather than a speaker issue.

i have some loaner speakers (modestly priced Von Schweikert's) holding me over until my new Evolution MM7's arrive. no; they don't give me the detail, dynamics, or extension of my MM3's or really pressurize the room properly; but in my room they disappear, and image like crazy. it's the room, the maturity of the system, the low noise floor, etc. etc.

Magico's are not my personal cup of tea (although i've not heard the Q7's so who knows?) but don't blame the speaker that it does not work in the room unless you know another speaker did work in that room/system. it took me 6-7 years to dial in my room to where it could take full advantage of a true full range speaker. not saying that it would take other 'smarter guys' that much time....but it's not a small matter.
 

FrantzM

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<snip>

but don't blame the speaker that it does not work in the room unless you know another speaker did work in that room/system. it took me 6-7 years to dial in my room to where it could take full advantage of a true full range speaker. not saying that it would take other 'smarter guys' that much time....but it's not a small matter.


I agree ... and I'll add that it takes time to "dial-in" most speakers in most rooms ...
 

marty

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I have to admit I've never heard Q7s sound great and believe that its highly possible the tweeter is too hot for many amps, particularly SS amps. However the best I ever heard a Q5 was with VAC amps and the sound was actually enjoyable. What I'd love to hear on the Q7s is the Zanden 9600 monoblocks. I had the opportunity to hear the Zandens on the Sonus Faber Aidas and it was just drop dead gorgeous. If you told me a tube amp was putting out bass like I heard I would not have believed it. Since that time I can't get the Zanden out my head. Of course, I'd own them by now if they had the power I need to drive Pipedreams. But what an amp! It just might make the Q7s sound musically compelling, a trait that seems to have eluded them whenever I have heard them with SS amps.
 

LL21

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Dec 26, 2010
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I have to admit I've never heard Q7s sound great and believe that its highly possible the tweeter is too hot for many amps, particularly SS amps. However the best I ever heard a Q5 was with VAC amps and the sound was actually enjoyable. What I'd love to hear on the Q7s is the Zanden 9600 monoblocks. I had the opportunity to hear the Zandens on the Sonus Faber Aidas and it was just drop dead gorgeous. If you told me a tube amp was putting out bass like I heard I would not have believed it. Since that time I can't get the Zanden out my head. Of course, I'd own them by now if they had the power I need to drive Pipedreams. But what an amp! It just might make the Q7s sound musically compelling, a trait that seems to have eluded them whenever I have heard them with SS amps.

I do love my Zanden digital, and am with Yamada San in a few weeks in Osaka for a visit. Looking forward to it! I agree that i would love to hear Zanden with Q7...i originally thought Zanden 4-box digital instead of the DCS...but the Amps too would be good. The question is can they drive the Q7s?

For you, Marty, you could get 2 sets of monos for your Pipedreams. And still probably end up with 5 digits leftover relative to the Lamm ML3s to which the Zanden monos were favorably reviewed (favorably as in equal or on par, not definitively superior).
 
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ack

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Though all systems I've heard at the dealer were in the same extremely well constructed and treated room, for some reason the Q7 - as driven (as I mentioned originally) - just did not impress as many others. I am willing to believe the Constellation Reference series might be a better match, but time will tell. I am also willing to believe the tweeter is too hot. It's also interesting that many on the net point out that the best they have heard the Q7s sound was with analog.

BTW, I also took a brief listen to the S5s with lesser electronics (Moon->Hegel->Luxman); these are really worth another audition in the same room and top electronics. And that cabinet exhibits extremely low resonances as well.
 

GaryProtein

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I have to admit I've never heard Q7s sound great and believe that its highly possible the tweeter is too hot for many amps, particularly SS amps. However the best I ever heard a Q5 was with VAC amps and the sound was actually enjoyable. What I'd love to hear on the Q7s is the Zanden 9600 monoblocks. I had the opportunity to hear the Zandens on the Sonus Faber Aidas and it was just drop dead gorgeous. If you told me a tube amp was putting out bass like I heard I would not have believed it. Since that time I can't get the Zanden out my head. Of course, I'd own them by now if they had the power I need to drive Pipedreams. But what an amp! It just might make the Q7s sound musically compelling, a trait that seems to have eluded them whenever I have heard them with SS amps.

The tweeter in some speakers is just too hot/bright, period. . . . and I DON'T mean a "room" or set-up problem.
 

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