JRiver MC Version 18

Ki Choi

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What would be the new added features in the version 18?

Just upgraded to 18 from 17 in hopes there will be enhanced DSD over USB features.
 

Ki Choi

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Answered my own questions by signing up on JRiver forum and verified all the hardware is working well by playing DSD128fs files via Foobar2000.

Bad news on Jriver was that the current MC17 version will not support DSD128fs DoP but it did work with DSD64fs files.
The MC18 wasn't released yet although I had purchased the license - (pre-sale - good business model - although we used call it in my earlier software business days - vaporware). Judging from the list of fixes and adds, Jriver had been busy and will take another couple of weeks before the prime time.

Good news, there's a new post in the JRiver forum this morning where it lists all the new functions to be included in MC18. For my interests,

NEW: Added support for DSD DoP bitstreaming of 2x DSD (128FS).

 

dallasjustice

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I read the thread over at the jriver forum. I can't find any new significant feature related to audio. The only thing I saw had to do with convolution and DSD, which Jriver 17 already supports. It would be nice if they came up with some good digital filters.
 

Ki Choi

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I read the thread over at the jriver forum. I can't find any new significant feature related to audio. The only thing I saw had to do with convolution and DSD, which Jriver 17 already supports. It would be nice if they came up with some good digital filters.

I would think proposed DSD128fs support on MC 18 would be a huge audio feature, IMHO. MC17 supports only DSD64fs.
 

dallasjustice

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I would think proposed DSD128fs support on MC 18 would be a huge audio feature, IMHO. MC17 supports only DSD64fs.
I played DSD128 on Jriver 17 for a long time. You are only talking about the new DSD over PCM standard. I am just saying that for most folks, pay the extra $ for 18 won't be worth it since the changes related to audio look more like fixes and minor updates. In the past, Jriver hasn't charged any upgrade fees for routine fixes and updates like this. Btw, how many DSD128 files do you have? :D
 

Ki Choi

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I played DSD128 on Jriver 17 for a long time. You are only talking about the new DSD over PCM standard. I am just saying that for most folks, pay the extra $ for 18 won't be worth it since the changes related to audio look more like fixes and minor updates. In the past, Jriver hasn't charged any upgrade fees for routine fixes and updates like this. Btw, how many DSD128 files do you have? :D

Yes, I should have been clear about MC 18 supporting DoP DSD128fs. I wasn't aware MC17 would support raw DSD128fs... I have DSD128fs files I had recorded on Korg MR2000S and concert recordings my friends made of Seattle Wind Symphony that are very good. I am also hoping to rip my SACD collection and play them from laptop and simply my playback.

After playing around Foobar2000, I am not sure if I will ever upgrade MC again. Foobar2000 is good to my ears.

BTW, what is your DSD128fs playback set up via MC17?

Ki
 

dallasjustice

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Yes, I should have been clear about MC 18 supporting DoP DSD128fs. I wasn't aware MC17 would support raw DSD128fs... I have DSD128fs files I had recorded on Korg MR2000S and concert recordings my friends made of Seattle Wind Symphony that are very good. I am also hoping to rip my SACD collection and play them from laptop and simply my playback.

After playing around Foobar2000, I am not sure if I will ever upgrade MC again. Foobar2000 is good to my ears.

BTW, what is your DSD128fs playback set up via MC17?

Ki
I had an mpd-5. Sorry, I didnt know you had so many 128 files. That's awesome!
 

amirm

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Apr 2, 2010
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Thanks for the info. I thought this was a bit odd: "Once you have PCM, it will be 64bit @ 352.8 kHz for DSD, and 64bit @ 705.6 kHz for DSD 2x."

Do you really maintain 64 bits at this sampling rate? What is the reasoning for that?
 

mojave

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Oct 29, 2010
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Thanks for the info. I thought this was a bit odd: "Once you have PCM, it will be 64bit @ 352.8 kHz for DSD, and 64bit @ 705.6 kHz for DSD 2x."

Do you really maintain 64 bits at this sampling rate? What is the reasoning for that?

I'll add that the ASIO driver will determine the final bitdepth delivered to the DAC. In JRiver you can either truncate or dither bitdepth conversions. Lynx, Mytek, and others have ASIO drivers that request 32-bit data even though they are 24 bit DACS. JRiver allows you to check "Device uses only most significant 24-bits (Lynx, etc.)" so it can dither to 24-bit and then pad to 32 bits before delivery to the DAC for optimal sound quality.
 

Ivory

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Aug 11, 2011
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Interesting the possibility to choose the low pass filter for the DSD to PCM conversion: 24KHz @ 48 dB/octave, 30KHz @ 24dB/octave or 50KHz @ 24 dB/octave.
Unfortunately no more information about the filter characteristics. In general, more filter options for DSD and PCM will be very appreciated.
 

Ki Choi

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I had been happy with using the Mytek Stereo 192 DSD DAC.


However, when I tried to use it with the latest Jriver MC 18 following your software setting instruction, I still have problems in playing DSD and 2xDSD files I had recorded from Korg MR2000s.


I set the MC18 from Jriver site as


DSD over PCM (DoP)
DSD over PCM packs DSD into a PCM-like signal for bitstreaming. This works in a similar way to how AC3 is packed into a PCM-like signal for S/PDIF surround sound output.
JRiver was part of formation of the DoP standard.
DSD over PCM requires Media Center 17.0.106 or newer.
To bitstream using this method:

  • Select 'WASAPI - Event Style' in Options > Audio > Output mode (and configure 'Output mode settings...' as necessary)
  • Select Options > Audio > Bitstreaming > Custom... and check _only_ 'DSD over PCM (DoP)' (in MC17 and earlier, Bitstreaming is under Options > Video)
  • Customize the 'DoP Format' if you have an older device that does not support the DoP standard


However, the software converts DSD to 176 PCM files before playing and won't play the 2X DSD at all.



If you had tried MC 18 in your office with the Mytek and have different settings, please let me know.


Ki
 

mojave

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You want to bitstream DSD using ASIO with the Mytek using the instructions you linked to under ASIO 2.2. This will allow the Mytek to decode the DSD.
 

Andre Marc

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I had been happy with using the Mytek Stereo 192 DSD DAC.


However, when I tried to use it with the latest Jriver MC 18 following your software setting instruction, I still have problems in playing DSD and 2xDSD files I had recorded from Korg MR2000s.


I set the MC18 from Jriver site as


DSD over PCM (DoP)
DSD over PCM packs DSD into a PCM-like signal for bitstreaming. This works in a similar way to how AC3 is packed into a PCM-like signal for S/PDIF surround sound output.
JRiver was part of formation of the DoP standard.
DSD over PCM requires Media Center 17.0.106 or newer.
To bitstream using this method:

  • Select 'WASAPI - Event Style' in Options > Audio > Output mode (and configure 'Output mode settings...' as necessary)
  • Select Options > Audio > Bitstreaming > Custom... and check _only_ 'DSD over PCM (DoP)' (in MC17 and earlier, Bitstreaming is under Options > Video)
  • Customize the 'DoP Format' if you have an older device that does not support the DoP standard


However, the software converts DSD to 176 PCM files before playing and won't play the 2X DSD at all.



If you had tried MC 18 in your office with the Mytek and have different settings, please let me know.


Ki

I was able to get the JRiver to send DSD to the MyTek with the same instructions. No PCM conversion.
 

Ki Choi

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May 13, 2010
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I was able to get the JRiver to send DSD to the MyTek with the same instructions. No PCM conversion.

Hi Andre:
thanks for your response.

I heard from Michal of Mytek that 2x DSD can be played if the Output Mode is set to ASIO. Although DSD plays when I put it in WASAPI-Event Style (with MC18 still thinks it is playing PCM 176.. but Mytek displaying "dsd"), 2X DSD still doesn't work at ASIO Output Mode. I know Mytek is fine because I can get it to play 2X DSD through the lowly Foorbar2000.

I am close to throwing in the towel and going to HQ Player like Bruce had recommended from the beginning. I was trying to hold on the the Jriver license...

Ki
 

mojave

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Oct 29, 2010
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I'm still not sure why you are using DSD over PCM when the Mytek decodes DSD natively. I suggest going to the Tools > Options > Audio, click on Bitstreaming, and selecting DSD. This will send the DSD to the Mytek without converting to PCM. I have a friend with a Mytek and it works fine for him.

I saw a note on a JRiver thread today that seeking while playing back DSD could cause a crash and will be fixed in the next release.
 

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Andre Marc

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Mar 14, 2012
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Hi Andre:
thanks for your response.

I heard from Michal of Mytek that 2x DSD can be played if the Output Mode is set to ASIO. Although DSD plays when I put it in WASAPI-Event Style (with MC18 still thinks it is playing PCM 176.. but Mytek displaying "dsd"), 2X DSD still doesn't work at ASIO Output Mode. I know Mytek is fine because I can get it to play 2X DSD through the lowly Foorbar2000.

I am close to throwing in the towel and going to HQ Player like Bruce had recommended from the beginning. I was trying to hold on the the Jriver license...

Ki

Gotcha. I set up DSD strictly for review purposes. For me with the miniscule amount of content available,
it is of little interest. But hey, if one day Sony and all the others license DSD download of pop, rock, and jazz titles
I will be first in line. Other than that, SACDs are just fine with me.
 

Ki Choi

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May 13, 2010
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Seattle WA area
You want to bitstream DSD using ASIO with the Mytek using the instructions you linked to under ASIO 2.2. This will allow the Mytek to decode the DSD.

You are correct, mojave.

After communicating with Mytek, I ended up setting the Output Mode to ASIO instead of the WASAPI-Event Style and Bitstream to DSD instead of DoP and now both DSD and 2xDSD is working nicely with dsd and Hdsd displayed at the DAC.

Thanks,
Ki
 

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