A rare review or a rare misstep?

Bill Hart · Aug 14, 2012

Andre Marc said:
Good clarification.

One thing that would be helpful to all readers/hobbyists is if TAS actually had a functional website, where one could search out archived Taffel
reviews to get some context for his preferences. It is sad that in 2012 one can still not do this. Every single Sphile review is archived and can be
searched out by author, brand, model, etc.

I do have on question..why do you think this is the "first negative review in the last few years" in the mags? There have been quite a few. Fremer hated
the Bryston amplification, Harley was very cool about the Venture Grand Ultimates, Lichte absolutely skewered Totem, and quite a few others.

Remember, there are very veiled ways that reviewers toe the line when giving a negative reviews. They use phrases like "careful system matching required",
that xyz "may not appeal to everyone", or "the XYX faces stiff competition at this price point".

Lastly, understand how reviews are arranged. Most are for products the reviewer will have heard at show and came away with positive
impressions. Many are products from manufacturers that the reviewer has an excellent relationship with. How many Musical Fidelity reviews
has Sam Tellig done? How many ARC products has Valin done? How many Audio Note products has Art Dudley done? That is just the way it is.
Lastly, reviewers may also get approached cold by manufacturers, or they may get assigned a product to review by the editor.

Agree that their website is kludgey, and doesn't serve their business interests. You should be able to buy single reviews shortly after the next issue of the magazine is published (like a 'single' or monograph) and then, after time, they should archive them for access; a decent chat facility, and even a used equipment sales forum. Remember how, in the old days, Audio magazine had a pretty good classified section (for that matter, so did the NYTimes) for used hi-fi?
I had a devil of a time registering to buy that issue. They didn't make it easy.
On reviewers who are sympatico with the particular brand, it's a sort of damned if you do/don't proposition- Valin took **** for his love affair with Magico; but handing off a piece to someone who is not 'in tune' with the brand or house philosophy can create its own issues, I guess.
You are absolutely right about understanding a reviewer's perspective to get context though, and that's something you can only learn by reading a number of reviews, and comparing them to your own experience with the same equipment.
I've been having a similar issue with record reviews of reissues- I'd like meaningful comparisons with other pressings.

DaveyF · Aug 14, 2012

Andre Marc said:
Good clarification.

Remember, there are very veiled ways that reviewers toe the line when giving a negative reviews. They use phrases like "careful system matching required",
that xyz "may not appeal to everyone", or "the XYX faces stiff competition at this price point".
.

Andre, I have a question: you say "there are veiled ways that reviewers toe the line when giving a negative review"....why the need to "veil"?

Andre Marc · Aug 14, 2012

whart said:
Agree that their website is kludgey, and doesn't serve their business interests. You should be able to buy single reviews shortly after the next issue of the magazine is published (like a 'single' or monograph) and then, after time, they should archive them for access; a decent chat facility, and even a used equipment sales forum. Remember how, in the old days, Audio magazine had a pretty good classified section (for that matter, so did the NYTimes) for used hi-fi?
I had a devil of a time registering to buy that issue. They didn't make it easy.
On reviewers who are sympatico with the particular brand, it's a sort of damned if you do/don't proposition- Valin took **** for his love affair with Magico; but handing off a piece to someone who is not 'in tune' with the brand or house philosophy can create its own issues, I guess.
You are absolutely right about understanding a reviewer's perspective to get context though, and that's something you can only learn by reading a number of reviews, and comparing them to your own experience with the same equipment.
I've been having a similar issue with record reviews of reissues- I'd like meaningful comparisons with other pressings.

You summed up the website perfectly. It really is classic "AOL 90's" in layout and the functionality and search tool are a joke. I would think you would want it make it EASIER for people to parse through your content. I really think they are a rudderless ship at this point. I hope I am wrong, since they have some really experience ears there. But there are a number of things that irk me..like no BPA style audit..and having manufacturers provide content...tsk tsk.

Manufacturers for sure have "go to" guys for reviews of their product. Paul Seydor and Richard Greene for Harbeth or Spendor, Valin for Magico..Harley for Wilson etc. Why risk rolling the dice?

And not only that..manufacturers, if they get a "home run" review from one mag, will not authorize a review in the other...again..why risk it?

John Atkinson complained that Stereophile could not get ARC review samples for a considerable period of time since TAS was writing glowing reviews of a bunch of products. Remember any ARC Reference reviews in Sphile? None. No Ref 3, no Ref 5, no 610, etc. I believe they did do the Ref 110.

microstrip · Aug 14, 2012

Andre Marc said:
One thing that also was not brought up is...do we take this as an outright pan...or is this reviewer saying he PREFERS the DAC7 to the DAC8?

I still have not gotten my issue. I think the last issue I received was in June.

You are exactly on spot - the reviewer just says he prefers the DAC7 over the DAC8 presenting a few examples. Individual subjective reviews are just that - only after you statistically process many preferences of the reviewer and other opinions about this piece they can have any meaningful value.
The only possible conclusion of this single review is that prospective buyers should listen carefully to the listed aspects.

I have now received the TAS issue and I did not spend a lot of time on the DAC8 review, as I am not aware of the reviewer previous work and preferences, but found the great review of the PS Audio PerfectWave DAC II and PerfectWave memory Player by Anthony H. Cordesman much more interesting and deserving careful reading!

Andre Marc · Aug 14, 2012

DaveyF said:
Andre, I have a question: you say "there are veiled ways that reviewers toe the line when giving a negative review"....why the need to "veil"?

Simple. Politics and personal relationships. Reviewers, like in any other business, have relationships with the people who supply review samples, either at PR companies, or the manufacturer them selves. It is a fantasy to think there is some Chinese wall between the reviewers and the names and faces that supply the product.

Now, PLEASE don't misinterpret what I am saying. I am NOT saying that reviewers softball so as not to offend.
They are just being diplomatic.

I am lucky that I have never reviewed a stinker. I have reviewed equipment from Lamm, Manley, Naim, Musical Fidelity, Thiel, McIntosh, Kimber, Element, Paradigm, Marantz, etc.

Some things I did not LOVE, like Bryston separates, or the Benchmark DAC1 HDR. But they had no flaws that warranted a pan. As a matter of fact, they had many pluses. But I personally would not want them in my system long term.

In a nut shell, here is my reviewing philosophy. You have to be objective/subjective. Meaning that you have to put your self in the shoes of the average audiophile and consider if the product would work for a wide swath of potential purchasers Of course you need to provide within the parameters of your own tastes some descriptions. But I believe many reviews are TOO subjective.

Andre Marc · Aug 14, 2012

microstrip said:
You are exactly on spot - the reviewer just says he prefers the DAC7 over the DAC8 presenting a few examples. Individual subjective reviews are just that - only after you statistically process many preferences of the reviewer and other opinions about this piece they can have any meaningful value.
The only possible conclusion of this single review is that prospective buyers should listen carefully to the listed aspects.

I have now received the TAS issue and I did not spend a lot of time on the DAC8 review, as I am not aware of the reviewer previous work and preferences, but found the great review of the PS Audio PerfectWave DAC II and PerfectWave memory Player by Anthony H. Cordesman much more interesting and deserving careful reading!

Interesting. Then if one is a potential customer, one would need to audition both units, and look at a detailed spec sheet to see what the specific differences are.

Finally, a review of the PS Audio combo..I don't remember seeing a print review yet..and it has been out for a few years now.

Bill Hart · Aug 14, 2012

DaveyF said:
Andre, I have a question: you say "there are veiled ways that reviewers toe the line when giving a negative review"....why the need to "veil"?

Davey, you addressed to Andre, but FWIW (I'm not a reviewer), I would assume it's 'political' in the sense that these folks have to live together- the reviewer does her/her job by taking a view, albeit a subtle one, but can face the manufacturer/distributor the next time they see each other at a show or whatever. I would also assume it's a little 'impolitic' to outright say' this POS sucks, I wouldn't waste my money, etc.' as part of a more general sentiment not to alienate readers from the industry at large. I don't buy into conspiracies between reviewers and manufacturers (except where proven) but at the same time, i don't think anybody wants to go out of their way to be nasty. Compare that to restaurant or theatre or movie reviews, where the reviewers seem to take perverse delight in bashing, sniping, and clever ways of denigrating the product or producer.

Bill Hart · Aug 14, 2012

Andre Marc said:
Interesting. Then if one is a potential customer, one would need to audition both units, and look at a detailed spec sheet to see what the specific differences are.

Finally, a review of the PS Audio combo..I don't remember seeing a print review yet..and it has been out for a few years now.

Anthony is the go to guy on SCUD misslle reviews and armaments.

Andre Marc · Aug 14, 2012

whart said:
Davey, you addressed to Andre, but FWIW (I'm not a reviewer), I would assume it's 'political' in the sense that these folks have to live together- the reviewer does her/her job by taking a view, albeit a subtle one, but can face the manufacturer/distributor the next time they see each other at a show or whatever. I would also assume it's a little 'impolitic' to outright say' this POS sucks, I wouldn't waste my money, etc.' as part of a more general sentiment not to alienate readers from the industry at large. I don't buy into conspiracies between reviewers and manufacturers (except where proven) but at the same time, i don't think anybody wants to go out of their way to be nasty. Compare that to restaurant or theatre or movie reviews, where the reviewers seem to take perverse delight in bashing, sniping, and clever ways of denigrating the product or producer.

Absolutely correct. Note, that in your theater, or restaurant reviews, there is no relationship there. The audiophile industry is a fairly small community.

Aside from that, astute readers can easily detect what a well written review is trying to say.

Calling something an outright piece of garbage is not helpful. It CAN help to point out the areas where it under performs or provide honest comparisons to peer products.

rbbert · Aug 14, 2012

Andre Marc said:
Interesting. Then if one is a potential customer, one would need to audition both units, and look at a detailed spec sheet to see what the specific differences are.

Finally, a review of the PS Audio combo..I don't remember seeing a print review yet..and it has been out for a few years now.

Actually the DAC II just came out this year, or perhaps late last year.

microstrip · Aug 14, 2012

rbbert said:
Actually the DAC II just came out this year, or perhaps late last year.

Yes, the review includes the new PerfectWave DAC II, not the older first version.

I quote an interesting sentence from the review, after some technical transcription from PS Audio litterature:

I am not endorsing Paul’s comments. I lack the technical
and manufacturing expertise to do so. It should be clear to any
reader of TAS that Boulder, Meridian, EMM Labs, and other
top DAC designers and manufacturers make different choices,
but it should be equally clear that these choices really matter. At
a minimum, they illustrate in depth just how complicated getting
the best sound out of digital equipment really is, and why taking
a high-end approach is so important.

rbbert · Aug 14, 2012

I'm sure I've brought this up in several other topics here, but I really think that A>D and D>A are far from perfect, despite Ethan's (and a few others') assertions to the contrary.

Search

Search

A rare review or a rare misstep?

Bill Hart

Well-Known Member

DaveyF

Well-Known Member

Andre Marc

Member Sponsor

microstrip

VIP/Donor

Andre Marc

Member Sponsor

Andre Marc

Member Sponsor

Bill Hart

Well-Known Member

Bill Hart

Well-Known Member

Andre Marc

Member Sponsor

rbbert

Well-Known Member

microstrip

VIP/Donor

rbbert

Well-Known Member

Similar threads

Members online