DCS Vivaldi

FrantzM · Sep 8, 2012

opus111 said:
Oh Whatmore was asking about the DIN41612 96pin connector? Glad you were able to work that out

If that connector really is the only way for the clock to be connected to the DAC then its rather a loooong way for a sensitive signal to travel.

I would have thought so .. And really wouldn't the best place for the clock to be would for the clock to be built inside ..Oh No I got it .. That would have made one less box .. Noblesse, no! Marketing Oblige ...

DonH50 · Sep 8, 2012

Note clock jitter depends only upon resolution and signal frequency, not the clock frequency, so jitter requirements are the same no matter the DAC architecture or sampling rate.

Since I have had to plumb precision clock references to other components before I don't have real heartburn over separate boxes, just seems unnecessary but whatever. The cable to plumb clock to gear was ~$10k in some cases, but for something this expensive I suppose that's in the mud.

wizard · Sep 11, 2012

Dac inside
View attachment 5532

MylesBAstor · Sep 11, 2012

Going to hear the DCS stack at Ears Nova this Friday. Hope to have something about it up on PFO soon after.

Gregadd · Sep 11, 2012

opus111 said:
High end audio is like sex - the people who are having the most fun with it aren't the ones doing all the talking about it

What of phone sex and pillow talk?
greg

Gregadd · Sep 11, 2012

No disagreement there whatsoever. Many engineers do trust measurements rather than their ears - I just happen not to be one of those. I used to be though. Now I work to devise measurements which confirm what my ears tell me rather than deny what my ears tell me because my measurements indicate otherwise.

Thanks.

LL21 · Sep 11, 2012

MylesBAstor said:
Going to hear the DCS stack at Ears Nova this Friday. Hope to have something about it up on PFO soon after.

Enjoy...be very, very interested in knowing what you think. particularly given your analogue tastes, and choice of reference equipment (CJ GAT, CJ ART, ML Summits, etc). All Great choices to my ear. I have heard the DCS Scarlatti and auditioned it when it came up for sale 2nd hand thru my local dealer who was interested in taking my Zanden back for a trade.

opus111 · Sep 11, 2012

You have a dealer who wanted to exchange your Zanden for a dCS? That was a narrow escape

Did you notice any SQ differences in dynamics incidentally? That's where I find the biggest difference between S-D and multibit.

opus111 · Sep 11, 2012

Gregadd said:
What of phone sex and pillow talk?

They're more doing it than talking about it. in 'talking about it' I wasn't including 'talking about it with your partner'.

LL21 · Sep 12, 2012

opus111 said:
You have a dealer who wanted to exchange your Zanden for a dCS? That was a narrow escape Did you notice any SQ differences in dynamics incidentally? That's where I find the biggest difference between S-D and multibit.

With DCS, i noticed the system was quieter, more detailed...impressive but relatively speaking i much preferred listening to music on my Zanden. I also know i have some minor PSU hum that needs to be fixed...choke filter. The DCS was the first to show me how much detail one could retrieve...but in terms of that detail, it felt (to me) the DCS presentation while more detailed felt more like excellent reproduction, stiff...not sure how one articulates this bit. A typewriter of music? In the right system, magic i am sure. But, somehow, it did not move me musically...or financially! My quest continues...

Hyperion · Sep 15, 2012

lloydelee21 said:
With DCS, i noticed the system was quieter, more detailed...impressive but relatively speaking i much preferred listening to music on my Zanden. I also know i have some minor PSU hum that needs to be fixed...choke filter. The DCS was the first to show me how much detail one could retrieve...but in terms of that detail, it felt (to me) the DCS presentation while more detailed felt more like excellent reproduction, stiff...not sure how one articulates this bit. A typewriter of music? In the right system, magic i am sure. But, somehow, it did not move me musically...or financially! My quest continues...

What you describe are the major improvements(and general differences) in the current high-end digital sources compared to old(er) generations imo, manifested as higher resolution/more detail, improved transparency, lower noise floor and perhaps increased bandwidth. I do recognize these improvements on an intellectual level, but I'm not sure if my current Audio Aero La Fontaine is more musically pleasing, natural sounding or enjoyable than my former Prestige or Capitole. The Capitole especially were a very natural and organic sounding player with wonderful timbre.

Actually, I've got the same feeling overall after attending high-end shows during the last 2-3 years. To me, 70-80% of the rooms disqualifies themselves as musically satisfying to my ears, leaving me more or less stone cold. In absolute, rational terms things are most certainly improving, but high-tech gear from manufacturers such as Magico, Wilson, Krell, Constellation, Thiel etc.(to name only a few) most often sound cold, sterile, flat and polite. Neutral and true to the source? Maybe. Engaging, musically enjoyable, natural, organic, fully bodied, textured...? Rarely. Maybe what I'm missing is what many audiophiles (and manufacturers) are doing their best to avoid - distorsion and noise. I don't know. What I do recognize and care about is what I hear, what makes my heart beat faster, what makes my hair stand up on my arms and what brings smiles to my face. In the end, my emotional heart will always win over my rational brain.

Maybe this is a larger question for another thread, and maybe what I'm hearing and experiencing is the actual goal of a majority of the manufacturers? The question is if it reflects the taste and preferences of a majority of the audiophiles and music lovers.

opus111 · Sep 15, 2012

Hyperion said:
Maybe what I'm missing is what many audiophiles (and manufacturers) are doing their best to avoid - distorsion and noise. I don't know.

I think there are probably a significant number of objectivists who'd take that view. I'd say you're experiencing the presence of distortion and noise which doesn't show up on our current suite of technical measurements. To wit, noise modulation. Whilst the newer S-D type DACs measure impressively well with FFTs, the FFT is analogous to a time-lapse photograph - you know those night-time shots that show vehicle tail-lights as parallel strands of illumination. It has to be this way to get the fine frequency domain resolution. A 64k point FFT (fairly typical) summarizes well over a second's worth of audio at 44k1. Whilst the so called 'noise floor' might look impressively low (this sells chips!) it won't show up any changes in the noise over the acquisition time - what's shown is the average noise over a 1.5s time period. Even in statistics we like to know both the mean and the standard deviation of some variable, but in audio there's no measurement for the noise's standard deviation.

What I do recognize and care about is what I hear, what makes my heart beat faster, what makes my hair stand up on my arms and what brings smiles to my face. In the end, my emotional heart will always win over my rational brain.

Agreed, my aim too. I take it the equipment you mentioned is multibit?

Maybe this is a larger question for another thread, and maybe what I'm hearing and experiencing is the actual goal of a majority of the manufacturers? The question is if it reflects the taste and preferences of a majority of the audiophiles and music lovers.

I suspect you're correct - the manufacturers are 'captive' to the magazines, and that's the style of sound the reviewers go for. I also suspect that listeners are gradually wising up to this - the magazines can only have weaker influence going forward with the growth of online audio forums.

jfrech · Sep 17, 2012

MylesBAstor said:
Going to hear the DCS stack at Ears Nova this Friday. Hope to have something about it up on PFO soon after.

Myles...you're killing us ! Please let us know some thoughts here! Any clue when you might post on PFO? Thanks in advance!

jfrech · Sep 17, 2012

lloydelee21 said:
With DCS, i noticed the system was quieter, more detailed...impressive but relatively speaking i much preferred listening to music on my Zanden. I also know i have some minor PSU hum that needs to be fixed...choke filter. The DCS was the first to show me how much detail one could retrieve...but in terms of that detail, it felt (to me) the DCS presentation while more detailed felt more like excellent reproduction, stiff...not sure how one articulates this bit. A typewriter of music? In the right system, magic i am sure. But, somehow, it did not move me musically...or financially! My quest continues...

Hi, hope all is well ! I really dig my dCS Scarlatti. I've found however you have to be careful on the filter and some clock settings-along with cable choices. I use DSD Filter 3 mostly (sometimes filter 2) and on the clock no dither (this to my ears is a biggie-really allows the music to relax and flow). Also I've found clock cables are very important-most seem to use stock. I've also tried Cardas Lightning 15 and Purist Proteus Provectus Praesto-both make significant improvements is focus, how the music flows, and listenability...

I haven't heard Zanden...but I suspect you might be able to tweek the dCS a bit via settings/cables to add what you like about the Zanden...

(PS, I have to admit, I heard the Gryphon amps...NICE !! -maybe we should move this to another thread...)

AudioExplorations · Dec 12, 2012

Has anyone yet been able to compare the Vivaldi DAC alone (via USB) to the Vivaldi full stack DAC + clock + upsampler (also via USB)?

chride · Jan 22, 2013

musicality

I listen now to my system for nearly 3 months now and can hear details in music from older albums (20 years or more) and new high resolutions ones which I have never heard before. I have to say I discover all my music in a new way. As source I use an Aurender S20 via USB or alternatively a Synology 213+ NASwhere I ripped bit by bit or transferred my old vinyls at 24/192 . I don't feel the music is an any way stiff, to the contrary it delivers a soundstage and musicality which I have never heard before. It is hard for me to end listening the music late in the evening. I think it is important that the whole system, especially the amplifiers don't have a harsh sound,the Accuphase seem to be ideal.

There is clearly a difference between just using the DAC or upsampling to DSD. With DSD More details, more analogue like feeling and a wider soundstage are present. The difference is not huge, however you can clearly sense it. Is it worth the additional spent? You get great music reproduction at a lot lower price tag, however if you want to listen to a system that makes you addicted, there are not many other choices even at high price levels.

dcs clock + upsampler + dac
Accuphase C3800 + A65
Speaker Isophon (Gauder Acustic) RC9 (full diamond tweeter and middle)
Interconnect Kimber KS1136
Speaker Nordost Valhalla

LL21 · Jan 22, 2013

chride said:
I listen now to my system for nearly 3 months now and can hear details in music from older albums (20 years or more) and new high resolutions ones which I have never heard before. I have to say I discover all my music in a new way. As source I use an Aurender S20 via USB or alternatively a Synology 213+ NASwhere I ripped bit by bit or transferred my old vinyls at 24/192 . I don't feel the music is an any way stiff, to the contrary it delivers a soundstage and musicality which I have never heard before. It is hard for me to end listening the music late in the evening. I think it is important that the whole system, especially the amplifiers don't have a harsh sound,the Accuphase seem to be ideal.

There is clearly a difference between just using the DAC or upsampling to DSD. With DSD More details, more analogue like feeling and a wider soundstage are present. The difference is not huge, however you can clearly sense it. Is it worth the additional spent? You get great music reproduction at a lot lower price tag, however if you want to listen to a system that makes you addicted, there are not many other choices even at high price levels.

dcs clock + upsampler + dac
Accuphase C3800 + A65
Speaker Isophon (Gauder Acustic) RC9 (full diamond tweeter and middle)
Interconnect Kimber KS1136
Speaker Nordost Valhalla

Congrats! Sounds like a great system...did you compare DCS to any other digital before you acquired it a few months ago? If so, how did they compare? Thanks!

chride · Jan 23, 2013

lloydelee21 said:
Congrats! Sounds like a great system...did you compare DCS to any other digital before you acquired it a few months ago? If so, how did they compare? Thanks!

Before the Vivaldi I used the dcs Scarlatti system. Aside from additional filter options and the connectivity advantages the vivaldi offers over the scarlatti (e.g. network and apps connectivity) it delivers a wider sound stage and more details. I would say running only the vivaldi dac (wthout clock and upsampling) comes close to the full scarlatti system (incuding clock and upsampling). Again, the differences are not huge, but if you are used to the excellent sound of the whole vivaldi system you don't want to go back to the scarlatti or run the vivaldi set without the clock and upsampling.

Enatai252 · Mar 5, 2013

My dCS Vivaldi stack arrives today....replaces the ARC Ref DAC. I am getting the DAC, Upsampler and clock. Plan to use the UPnP function as my main source. To date I have ripped about 1550 CDs using my Naim HDX SSD to a NAS and have over 300 hi Rez files in FLAC (24/88,24/96, 24/176 and 24/192). The control app is not available yet but I am hoping it is out soon. I have been using the Naim n-serve and n-stream apps for several years and really look forward to what the Vivaldi will do. The Ref DAC will move to a digital only system in my Cabin. I also received my Naim NDS/555DR for my study system and will provide feed back on the three of these products as they perform the streamer/DAC functions. I also plan to compare the Vivaldi to my LP source.

LL21 · Mar 5, 2013

Enatai252 said:
My dCS Vivaldi stack arrives today....replaces the ARC Ref DAC. I am getting the DAC, Upsampler and clock. Plan to use the UPnP function as my main source. To date I have ripped about 1550 CDs using my Naim HDX SSD to a NAS and have over 300 hi Rez files in FLAC (24/88,24/96, 24/176 and 24/192). The control app is not available yet but I am hoping it is out soon. I have been using the Naim n-serve and n-stream apps for several years and really look forward to what the Vivaldi will do. The Ref DAC will move to a digital only system in my Cabin. I also received my Naim NDS/555DR for my study system and will provide feed back on the three of these products as they perform the streamer/DAC functions. I also plan to compare the Vivaldi to my LP source.

Big news! Congratulations...look forward to reading your impressions! Enjoy!

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