DCS Vivaldi

microstrip said:

Did you try the Altair II in your system? What was in the empty space in your signature or have you been using in these comparisons?

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I have not yet tried Altair II yet, hope to get a well burned in unit to try soon. I have been using Arc Ref 10 to compare as it has been my beloved preamp since years. I still think it is a great preamp and in this case maybe it does not go well with Constellation Hercules, no idea.

number95 said:

As some of you may remember, a while ago I wrote to the forum regarding direct connection from Vivaldi DAC to power amps hence bypassing the preamp. It has been weeks after weeks and I can’t believe that I am still going on that route. Whether I was going slightly mad or what I have been hearing was true, this had to be also tested by some other ears. First, almost all audiophile friends who recently listened to my system w/o preamp agreed that they also favor the current state of the system with a big margin to previous in terms of resolution, dynamic impact, speed, pinpoint imaging and layering. Some also mentioned, for an audiophile whose main dish is a wide and bold soundstage, then a very good preamplifier might also be considered. I still have doubts on that in case that might create a compromise from the recent benefits listed above (or at least until I try one at my setup and hear with my own ears). To me, certainly the pity is lack of analog. Since I had no intention to live with only one format, at some stage presumably the analog bug inside me will favor a preamp. But that will most probably force me to upgrade the existing analog gear as well since digital really rules here. I used to consider -as many others- Vivaldi setup as extremely expensive including the cable investments one also needs to do. That said for a digital source only audio setup, I strongly believe Vivaldi can be connected to power amps without any hesitation and for many that means a significant saving as one needs to spend serious bucks for a really good preamp to compete and even in that case I presume the differences will be like splitting hairs. So in terms of using practices I came to the conclusion that Vivaldi is not that expensive relative to current pricing in hiend industry, that is interesting but true.

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After reading your post a while ago, I connected the dac to the THEATER input of the D’Agostino. In my system bypassing the preamp section was just not good....

Pol said:

After reading your post a while ago, I connected the dac to the THEATER input of the D’Agostino. In my system bypassing the preamp section was just not good....

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Have you completely bypassed your preamp and directly connected DAC to power amps? One more interconnector as well as preamp’s circuit path (even if unity gain selected) over power amps should be considered.

number95 said:

I have not yet tried Altair II yet, hope to get a well burned in unit to try soon. I have been using Arc Ref 10 to compare as it has been my beloved preamp since years. I still think it is a great preamp and in this case maybe it does not go well with Constellation Hercules, no idea.

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I own the REF40 and tried it with the Centaur II - but to my regret I preferred the Virgo III by a wide margin. As my Transparent Opus cables were tuned to Audio Research the test was not 100% fair, but I was disappointed, as it looked as being a great combination. It was a short time distributor loan and I did not have the time to try the direct connection.

The Constellation Audio's have 20k balanced input impedance - although acceptable for the REF10 and 40 ARC preamplifiers I feel they prefer higher loads, around 100-200k.

number95 said:

Have you completely bypassed your preamp and directly connected DAC to power amps? One more interconnector as well as preamp’s circuit path (even if unity gain selected) over power amps should be considered.

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Hi Number95. Yes, according to the manual, the theater input totally bypasses the preamp section of the d’agostino apliflyer (momentum integrated). The sound, although nice, was, in a word, much flatter then letting the d’agostino preamp handle the signal

microstrip said:

I own the REF40 and tried it with the Centaur II - but to my regret I preferred the Virgo III by a wide margin. As my Transparent Opus cables were tuned to Audio Research the test was not 100% fair, but I was disappointed, as it looked as being a great combination. It was a short time distributor loan and I did not have the time to try the direct connection.

The Constellation Audio's have 20k balanced input impedance - although acceptable for the REF10 and 40 ARC preamplifiers I feel they prefer higher loads, around 100-200k.

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I agree that impedance matching might have an impact. Ref10 has an output of 600 ohms vs Altair II’s 100 ohms, Hercules have 20k ohms balanced inputs.

By the way, I sent Magnum Opus IC between pre n powers to Transparent factory for recalibration to 100ohm. Previously it was tuned to 600ohms. Although Vivaldi has a 3 ohms output, now the cables are relatively better tuned to that. The difference of performance due to recalibration was significant at the frequency extremes and especially high frequencies.

Pol said:

Hi Number95. Yes, according to the manual, the theater input totally bypasses the preamp section of the d’agostino apliflyer (momentum integrated). The sound, although nice, was, in a word, much flatter then letting the d’agostino preamp handle the signal

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Thanks Pol. I used to mention completely taking out the preamp from the setup, connecting Vivaldi via single set of IC to the power amps. In your case since DCS is still connected to preamp with another pair of ICs and then there is another set of ICs from preamp to power amps. Last but not the least even if you used by pass input, the signal still needed to take a route from your amps input terminal to the output terminal via another pair of wiring. Those might have some impact over the final output so a risk free test might be directly connecting DAC to the power amps.
Best,
Hakan

Hi all,

I am joining the DCS community as I am a happy new owner of a Vivaldi DAC with the Network Bridge ! DCS was not really my initial plan but I did the "mistake" to listen to it...Now, well, I am looking towards the clock and the upsampler(replacing the NB) ...( I am not interested by the transport as i have all my Cds ripped + streaming).
My dealer is doing an attractive discount on the demo units and has been kind enough to let me try at home ! ( quite uncommon in the country i am living)
My setup is a bit "complex" as I have a Trinnov room optimizer that I really need to integrate ( my room and listening position are unfortunately not "perfect") .
Ideally , I would like to use the network input of the upsampler, then the signal to Trinnov SPDIF input and then send it back to the upsampler AES input and then to the DAC through the dual AES.
I am pretty sure it won't be possible but if you have any ideas or suggestions.
Also do you know if the digital outputs of the upsampler are all active simultaneously ?

Thanks
Alex
PS : sorry for my English I am not a native

number95 said:

Thanks Pol. I used to mention completely taking out the preamp from the setup, connecting Vivaldi via single set of IC to the power amps. In your case since DCS is still connected to preamp with another pair of ICs and then there is another set of ICs from preamp to power amps. Last but not the least even if you used by pass input, the signal still needed to take a route from your amps input terminal to the output terminal via another pair of wiring. Those might have some impact over the final output so a risk free test might be directly connecting DAC to the power amps.
Best,
Hakan

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I've also my Vivaldi DAC direct to amps and found it sounded 'nice' but pretty sterile.

moby2004 said:

Hi all,

I am joining the DCS community as I am a happy new owner of a Vivaldi DAC with the Network Bridge ! DCS was not really my initial plan but I did the "mistake" to listen to it...Now, well, I am looking towards the clock and the upsampler(replacing the NB) ...( I am not interested by the transport as i have all my Cds ripped + streaming).
My dealer is doing an attractive discount on the demo units and has been kind enough to let me try at home ! ( quite uncommon in the country i am living)
My setup is a bit "complex" as I have a Trinnov room optimizer that I really need to integrate ( my room and listening position are unfortunately not "perfect") .
Ideally , I would like to use the network input of the upsampler, then the signal to Trinnov SPDIF input and then send it back to the upsampler AES input and then to the DAC through the dual AES.
I am pretty sure it won't be possible but if you have any ideas or suggestions.
Also do you know if the digital outputs of the upsampler are all active simultaneously ?

Thanks
Alex
PS : sorry for my English I am not a native

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Congratulations!

Have you considered this path? :

Network Bridge -> Trinnov - Upsampler -> Vivaldi DAC?

You would have to keep your Network Bridge but I think it would work?

yes of course but if I can reduce the number of machines and cables... And I would expect a better implementation of the network board in the upsampler vs the bridge ? but I might be wrong here.

moby2004 said:

Hi all,

I am joining the DCS community as I am a happy new owner of a Vivaldi DAC with the Network Bridge ! DCS was not really my initial plan but I did the "mistake" to listen to it...Now, well, I am looking towards the clock and the upsampler(replacing the NB) ...( I am not interested by the transport as i have all my Cds ripped + streaming).
My dealer is doing an attractive discount on the demo units and has been kind enough to let me try at home ! ( quite uncommon in the country i am living)
My setup is a bit "complex" as I have a Trinnov room optimizer that I really need to integrate ( my room and listening position are unfortunately not "perfect") .
Ideally , I would like to use the network input of the upsampler, then the signal to Trinnov SPDIF input and then send it back to the upsampler AES input and then to the DAC through the dual AES.
I am pretty sure it won't be possible but if you have any ideas or suggestions.
Also do you know if the digital outputs of the upsampler are all active simultaneously ?

Thanks
Alex
PS : sorry for my English I am not a native

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Fantastic...congrats and welcome aboard! Great system...have heard the DCS Vivaldi full stack with Constellation and Rockport (Altair 2). Fantastic resolution. Enjoy and look forward to reading more when you have the time.

moby2004 said:

Hi all,

I am joining the DCS community as I am a happy new owner of a Vivaldi DAC with the Network Bridge ! DCS was not really my initial plan but I did the "mistake" to listen to it...Now, well, I am looking towards the clock and the upsampler(replacing the NB) (...)

Click to expand...

Congratulations for the purchase of your excellent DAC and joining a significant group of happy DCS users in WBF.

In my experience, DCS products need proper matching and are not the type of plug and play devices, that reward you immediately with its optimum performance. But once we experience what they can do at their best it is difficult to move away! Are you feeding the clock of your DAC in the Network Bridge?

BTW, the audio performance of my network digital system showed a significant improvement when I isolated it with a Gigabit Ethernet Single-Mode SC Fiber .

moby2004 said:

Hi all,

I am joining the DCS community as I am a happy new owner of a Vivaldi DAC with the Network Bridge ! DCS was not really my initial plan but I did the "mistake" to listen to it...Now, well, I am looking towards the clock and the upsampler(replacing the NB) ...( I am not interested by the transport as i have all my Cds ripped + streaming).
My dealer is doing an attractive discount on the demo units and has been kind enough to let me try at home ! ( quite uncommon in the country i am living)
My setup is a bit "complex" as I have a Trinnov room optimizer that I really need to integrate ( my room and listening position are unfortunately not "perfect") .
Ideally , I would like to use the network input of the upsampler, then the signal to Trinnov SPDIF input and then send it back to the upsampler AES input and then to the DAC through the dual AES.
I am pretty sure it won't be possible but if you have any ideas or suggestions.
Also do you know if the digital outputs of the upsampler are all active simultaneously ?

Thanks
Alex
PS : sorry for my English I am not a native

Click to expand...

First congratulations ! You'll be thrilled with the Vivaldi ! The other components will tug at your wallet...even the transport if you hear it first .

All of of the outputs should work. However, the up sampler only allows you to select one input. So if you're on the network input, it won't also select the Trinnov via the AES input. Doubt this config will work. I guess you could put the Trinnov between the upsampler and the dac...however, can the trinnov handle the upsampled rates...otherwise you'll loose something here. dCS is very help, might be worth you or your dealer contacting them and see what idea's they have...

So let me give a bit more details about my listening tests and my gear set up:

Server used through Ethernet output = Melco N1 / Preamp = Accuphase C2850/Power Amp = Accuphase A70 / Speakers = Vivid Audio G3. Current DAC = Chord DAVE

- Test 1 : NB plugged to Melco / NB plugged to my Trinnov through AES / Trinnov plugged to Vivaldi DAC through AES. NB clock slaved to Vivaldi and Trinnov clock slaved to NB clock
Compared to my current set up, more organic, more naturalness , less digital harshness. In terms of clarity and micro details quite similar ( DAVE is a champ in that area). TBH , satisfied of my new set up but no "waouh" effect.

Later during the day arrived the clock and the upsampler on loan for testing...

- Test 2 : Let s add first the Master clock ==> NB plugged to Melco / NB plugged to Trinnov through AES / Trinnov plugged to Vivaldi DAC through AES. NB /Vivaldi DAC/Trinnov clocks slaved to the Master Clock.
"Waouh" effect is starting ! Focus, Image, Soundstage improved substantially. Naturalness, Timbre got better as well. To be picky, PRAT and transparency could be even better.

- Test 3 : Let s add the Upsampler ==> NB plugged to Melco / NB plugged to Trinnov through AES / Trinnov plugged to Vivaldi Upsampler through AES/ Upsampler plugged to Vivaldi DAC through DUAL AES. NB /Upsampler/Vivaldi DAC/Trinnov clocks slaved to the Master Clock.
As we say in French : " la claque !". this was the Waouh effect. I never ever could imagine I could get such a sound in my room. ( TBH as well, this is my first try in the digital "high-end" territory)
All the qualities previously described were there even better + PRAT + Transparency.

As it was starting to be late , I switched to headphones listening ( same setup but without the NB and the Trinnov .Melco plugged directly to the upsampler+DAC+Clock) . My headphone being Focal Utopia and the amp being my same Accuphase preamp which is having an (excellent) headphone output.
Well the Utopia is a very revealing and transparent headphone . What can I say ? It was simply my best headphones listening moment since...

So, to summarize,according to my early observations , to get the best of the Vivaldi DAC , the clock and the upsampler are essential ! Those are not the cherry on the cake, it s part of the cake !

The issue now is that it s a substantial investment despite the attractive discount (and time limited) . I have one week to take my decision ! But won't have too much time for listening during the week unfortunately.

Alex

PS : i liaised with DCS to try to find an optimal solution. No answer yet.

moby2004 said:

"Waouh" effect is starting !

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Haha...I think we all felt that way ;-) ! What digital and power cables are you using? Possible 2nd round of "Waouh effect"

AES and clock cables were the box cables so nothing fancy. All my power cables are custom made using acrolink cable (7n) and furutech connectors (pretty good quality but not TOTL) DCS units were plugged to the wall.If I keep them they will be plugged to my Isotek Sigma.

Alex

moby2004 said:

AES and clock cables were the box cables so nothing fancy. All my power cables are custom made using acrolink cable (7n) and furutech connectors (pretty good quality but not TOTL) DCS units were plugged to the wall.If I keep them they will be plugged to my Isotek Sigma.

Alex

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The boxed digital cables are very poor - they are included just to be sure the customer will not spend the first days looking to the system. While thinking about the subject I used custom made van den Hul cables - inexpensive in bulk, but very decent sounding. For clocks I used the DIGI-COUPLER 75 Ohm, AES/EBU was the AES-EBU 110 Ohm Professional.

DCS advises us to not use any power conditioner.

BTW, the audio performance of my network digital system showed a significant improvement when I isolated it with a Gigabit Ethernet Single-Mode SC Fiber .

I'm getting my NB delivered and installed later this week for my Vivaldi DAC. The sound has already improved since I converted from portable HD's and USB to a NAS with solid state drives. I have top line Wireworld Ethernet cat 8 cables for NAS, and. one for NB. I'm not familiar with Gigabit ethernet single mode SC fiber, and how it helps...please elaborate to help out a novice. I have a TA reference digital to use as clock cable, and getting TA digital AES cables to connect NB to DAC. I've also read it may help to ground my 16 port GB ethernet switch, which I've not done.
From all the enthusiastic posts, it seems I may also need to start saving for the clock and upsampler.

Since I'm a newbie on WBF, how can I link my system underneath my log in, like most folks...
Thanks,
Bob

microstrip said:

The boxed digital cables are very poor - they are included just to be sure the customer will not spend the first days looking to the system. While thinking about the subject I used custom made van den Hul cables - inexpensive in bulk, but very decent sounding. For clocks I used the DIGI-COUPLER 75 Ohm, AES/EBU was the AES-EBU 110 Ohm Professional.

DCS advises us to not use any power conditioner.

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Thanks for the advice. Will progressively improve the cables part of my installation !