DCS Vivaldi

jfrech

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Sep 3, 2012
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So a real freak opens up in public? Like here? That's what you're saying? ok :) busted...
 

Fiddle Faddle

Member
Aug 7, 2015
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did you by chance ever try a glass CD? also did you try CD treatment sprays/lazer or both as i am told you can hear the difference even when ripped. i use these treatments for playback.

I have never tried a glass CD. I actually thought glass was only the domain of masters used for pressing. As for treatments, I use the L'Art Du Son CD/DVD conditioner prior to burning the CD. I have done listening tests untreated versus treated prior to burning and can hear the difference. It's a pain (only so much as it adds time - about 6 minutes per disk of totally "manual" labour) but it is worth it.

As for the effects these things may have on ripping, I have to say I have never heard any difference whatsoever. I suppose in the dark world of digital almost anything might be possible but in my experience bit-identical files in the same container format always sound precisely the same if using the exact same hardware, software and settings (and both files played from the same area of volatile memory). And since a secure rip is going to be precisely the same whether you rip from a treated CD or an untreated one, then based on that they are going to sound the same too. I can, however, understand that two rips might sound different from a treated versus untreated CD if they are not secure rips. But I don't know why anyone wouldn't secure rip these days as it does not really add much time to the process. Perhaps a track or two might have to be done another way if the CD is badly damaged and the tracks simply cannot be read or fully error corrected and then in those cases it would make sense those tracks may possibly sound different. Another possibility is one rip might be PCM and another FLAC. In which case I hear differences myself even if everything else is exactly the same and despite the FLAC being bit-identical to the PCM once converted (i.e. expanded).
 

ksalno

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Mar 29, 2015
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XV-1

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May 24, 2010
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Been spending a lot of time over the holidays listening to digital. Which is saying a lot for a vinyl fanatic. A few weeks ago I took delivery on a dCS Vivaldi upsampler which is really changing my perception of redbook cd's and really most digital formats. Recording quality still matters-just like vinyl. However I'm very close to saying I no longer prefer a format. Vinyl, SACD, Redbook CD's, Hi Res downloads all have their attributes. It's the music and the recording that take precedence now. Before it was always Vinyl #1 for me.

I have a fellow vinyl addict up in the Boston area that recently listened to a Vivaldi stack on redbook only. I think he now understands my point of view on good digital.

I am slowly moving from redbook & 16/44 downloads from dCS Filter 1 to Filter 5 on the dCS Vivaldi upsampler. Then either outputting to DSD F1/F3 or DXD at F5/F6.

This weekend I've been settling down on dCS Vivaldi upsampler at F5, outputting to DXD then either F5 or F6 and skipping DSD on the Vivaldi DAC. Seems to be more incisive, wring out more textures in the mid bass, render back of hall details more easily.

I am starting to be able to hear what each filter brings. Takes some work...they all sound good...but are subtly different. Not sure I could name what filter was what in a blind test...but I bet I can hear something is different in a blind test.

My vinyl, that I still love, just isn't getting the playing time since the upsampler arrived. That's a huge statement for me..been happily spinning vinyl for 35 years since I was about 15 with my first Denon table and Denon MC cartridge.

I am still shocked by how well a nicely recorded redbook cd can sound off the dCS Vivaldi transport via the upsampler. Really opened up my music library !! Which is what our hobby is all about !


Time to upgrade the Monaco to 2.0 model?
 

CKKeung

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Jun 17, 2011
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Some information coming out from CES regarding the Vivaldi stack upgrade coming in February. Just when you thought you had your filters all dialed in!
dCS updates filters and mapping software

Report on dCS @ CES2016 by a Taiwan audiophile website:
  1. The iPad APP for Rossini is ready.
  2. Vivaldi DAC firmware update is ready. After installation, the owner can switch between the old & new Ring DAC logics.
  3. Vivaldi Transport firmware update is ready. 2xDXD and 2xDSD output are now available.
 

jfrech

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Time to upgrade the Monaco to 2.0 model?

haha...but yep for sure ! Very curious...have a pretty active thread elsewhere on the 2.0
 

jfrech

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Report on dCS @ CES2016 by a Taiwan audiophile website:
  1. The iPad APP for Rossini is ready.
  2. Vivaldi DAC firmware update is ready. After installation, the owner can switch between the old & new Ring DAC logics.
  3. Vivaldi Transport firmware update is ready. 2xDXD and 2xDSD output are now available.

My dCS dealer just stopped by. Heard the a/b demo on the new software. His words - it's significant. I'm happy as a clam with my current Vivaldi SW.
 

jfrech

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Enatai252

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I hear there is a new hardware and software update coming for the upsampler as well. Anxiously awaiting details but I expect it will take some of the improvements made during the Rossini development cycle on network board and app
 
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caseyse

New Member
Dec 13, 2015
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I hear there is a new hardware and software update coming for the upsampler as well. Anxiously awaiting details but I expect it will take some of the improvements made during the Rossini development cycle on network board and app

That's correct, the Upsampler Plus, available in March. I have been waiting a few months for its release, and will place an order later this month.
 

Blizzard

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Sep 30, 2015
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That's correct, the Upsampler Plus, available in March. I have been waiting a few months for its release, and will place an order later this month.

What's the upsampler plus do different than the regular upsampler? Does it upsample to higher DSD rates now than before?
 

jfrech

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Sep 3, 2012
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What's the upsampler plus do different than the regular upsampler? Does it upsample to higher DSD rates now than before?

I know one thing is DSD 128 now...
 

jfrech

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Sep 3, 2012
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I hear there is a new hardware and software update coming for the upsampler as well. Anxiously awaiting details but I expect it will take some of the improvements made during the Rossini development cycle on network board and app

The software update is supposed to be a BIG deal. My dealer heard it (current vs new) at CES ... new filters and a new scheme for mapping out how the switches operate on the ladder dac...
 

ksalno

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Mar 29, 2015
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I hear there is a new hardware and software update coming for the upsampler as well. Anxiously awaiting details but I expect it will take some of the improvements made during the Rossini development cycle on network board and app

John Quick is supposed to be attending an event tomorrow evening at my dealer, so I will definitely ask him. The software upgrade has been openly discussed for at least 6 months and is due out any time but this is the first I've heard of any hardware changes. In fact, dCS seem to pride themselves on having a hardware architecture that allows them to do all of their upgrades via software.
 

Stereophonic

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Jun 9, 2013
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Hi.
I'm comparing a TAD DA1000 vs a DCS Rossini+Clock through my TAD C600/Classé Omega/TAD CR1 system.
I need to put the Rossini on 6V output to listen it at the same level of the TAD.
If i put it on 2V i have to turn up the volume level too much.
I was told to put it on 6V only to connect it direct to the amplifiers.
Sound is pretty good from the Rossini but i suspect there's any voltage incompatibility between dac/pre.
What output voltage are you using?
Regards.
 

jfrech

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Sep 3, 2012
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Hi.
I'm comparing a TAD DA1000 vs a DCS Rossini+Clock through my TAD C600/Classé Omega/TAD CR1 system.
I need to put the Rossini on 6V output to listen it at the same level of the TAD.
If i put it on 2V i have to turn up the volume level too much.
I was told to put it on 6V only to connect it direct to the amplifiers.
Sound is pretty good from the Rossini but i suspect there's any voltage incompatibility between dac/pre.
What output voltage are you using?
Regards.

I use 2v. But have a friend that uses 6v to mate best with his pre. I think set it at what's best for your system....it's not just for direct to amps more usually needed for direct to amps...
 

ksalno

Well-Known Member
Mar 29, 2015
71
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238
John Quick is supposed to be attending an event tomorrow evening at my dealer, so I will definitely ask him. The software upgrade has been openly discussed for at least 6 months and is due out any time but this is the first I've heard of any hardware changes. In fact, dCS seem to pride themselves on having a hardware architecture that allows them to do all of their upgrades via software.

I spoke to John tonight. The Vivaldi upgrades are delayed until March/April. He did show the new iPad app which is similar to the one for the Rossini. He also said Roon end-point integration is coming. MQA is further out. He confirmed there will be a hardware upgrade to the Upsampler but it sounded to me that it will be more for the network card so that it can handle two-way communication with the iPad app. Existing Upsamplers will be upgraded, no need to buy anything new. We also discussed cables with the Nordost rep who was there, specifically for the Clock. John confirmed that these is an audible improvement in going from the stock BNC cables to just about any higher end cable but he hasn't heard a complete comparison of the Nordost line beyond the Heimdahl. The Nordost rep said they've done a comparison and with each step up, there is a not subtle improvement (of course he would). But it also said they will lend cables for trial and if the buyer doesn't hear the difference in their own system they can return the loaners with no further commitment. Also got to hear Peter McGrath demo some 4-channel surround recordings using dual Vivaldi DACs and Wilson XLFs for front speakers and Alexia's for rear speakers. It takes a big room for this set-up and I have to say the improvement was subtle but discernible.

Anyway, I think Vivaldi owners have another couple months of waiting but it sounds like it will be worth it when the software and hardware updates finally arrive.
 

jfrech

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Sep 3, 2012
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I spoke to John tonight. The Vivaldi upgrades are delayed until March/April. He did show the new iPad app which is similar to the one for the Rossini. He also said Roon end-point integration is coming. MQA is further out. He confirmed there will be a hardware upgrade to the Upsampler but it sounded to me that it will be more for the network card so that it can handle two-way communication with the iPad app. Existing Upsamplers will be upgraded, no need to buy anything new. We also discussed cables with the Nordost rep who was there, specifically for the Clock. John confirmed that these is an audible improvement in going from the stock BNC cables to just about any higher end cable but he hasn't heard a complete comparison of the Nordost line beyond the Heimdahl. The Nordost rep said they've done a comparison and with each step up, there is a not subtle improvement (of course he would). But it also said they will lend cables for trial and if the buyer doesn't hear the difference in their own system they can return the loaners with no further commitment. Also got to hear Peter McGrath demo some 4-channel surround recordings using dual Vivaldi DACs and Wilson XLFs for front speakers and Alexia's for rear speakers. It takes a big room for this set-up and I have to say the improvement was subtle but discernible.

Anyway, I think Vivaldi owners have another couple months of waiting but it sounds like it will be worth it when the software and hardware updates finally arrive.

Thanks for following up. I know the network card also allows the USB flash and the rj45 network input to hand dsd 128 and dxd sampling rates. Right now both are limited to dsd 64 and 24/192. The main USB input can already do DXD but not DSD 128.

As far as clock cables, I've tried a few. And can absolutely say they make a big difference. Surprisingly big. When I rec'd my Upsampler in Dec I tried stock, then Cardas lightning 15, and bought Transparent Reference XL (x2 one for clock 1 and 1 for clock 2). The Transparent Ref XL is almost like clock/ no clock it's that kind of a change.

Really appreciate you posting what you found out. Can't wait for the new software/network card!
 

jfrech

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Sep 3, 2012
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I bought 5 cd's this week. They just arrived.

-Paul Bley, ECM Not one Not two
-Kenny Barron, Blue Note, Art of the Conversation
-Keith Jarrent/Charlie Haden, ECM, Last Dance
-Charlie Haden/Jim Hall, Impulse
-Allen Toussanit, Nonesuch, The bright Mississippi

So before you say....yeah...so what. These are the first physical cd's I have bought in at least 10 years. Maybe 15 years. I've bought a pile of vinyl, a pile of SACDs, and maybe 50 hi res downloads in the interim. I can't tell you how happy I am with redbook since my upsampler arrived in Nov '15. I bought the titles above from Amazon at like $7-$15 each. Reasonable pricing considering most downloads are $20-$30 and most LP's are $30-$50. (I know I know... price of the upsampler doesn't make this a bargain)

Where I am really going here is the musical enjoyment of redbook cd's with the Vivaldi Upsampler. I heard the Allen Toussaint title on my dealers dCS Rossini the other day. I was just smitten with the music. I can see why we have a few posts on the dCS Rossini now on WBF.

Digital is really improving. It may cost a bit to get the best. But it's swell to listen to! I suspect I'll be buying quite a few redbook cd's over the coming months.

dCS has really expanded my music library...and my enjoyment !!
 

fas42

Addicted To Best
Jan 8, 2011
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NSW Australia
Digital is really improving. It may cost a bit to get the best. But it's swell to listen to! I suspect I'll be buying quite a few redbook cd's over the coming months.
Just to comment that it will only get better! I'm very much aware of how amazingly good Redbook can sound, in my experience there are almost no limits to the level of listening quality that can be achieved, even on the most unlikely CDs - the industry is now in a significant learning phase, and more and more gear will be of adequate quality to get the job done ...
 

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