Pin point imaging?

[caesar]

There is a review of Martin Logan Montis in the latest Stereophile. The writer complains that the speaker does not do pin point imaging as well as other speakers. (The rest of the review is quite positive.)

Is pin point imaging about making design choices to make the speaker sound like the real thing? Who really thinks about imaging listening to music? Or is it an audiophile invented concept?

Where does the concept of pin point imaging originate? An artifact of reproducing music?

And is it really important to you?

[Phelonious Ponk]

There is a review of Martin Logan Montis in the latest Stereophile. The writer complains that the speaker does not do pin point imaging as well as other speakers. (The rest of the review is quite positive.)

Is pin point imaging about making design choices to make the speaker sound like the real thing? Who really thinks about imaging listening to music? Or is it an audiophile invented concept?

Where does the concept of pin point imaging originate? An artifact of reproducing music?

And is it really important to you?

I'm a big fan of pin point imaging. It is not natural. The band at the local club, or even the ensemble of acoustic musicians in my living room do not image as precisely as my monitors do, but I personally find pinpoint imaging to be a good replacement for the visual cues you get in a performance. Is the positioin of that trumpet a bit more cut out and clearly delinated in the horizontal space than it would ever be in most venues? Sure. But I can't look at the trumpet player to precisely locate him at home in front of the speakers.

Just a helpful illusion.

The reviewer complained about the imaging of the MLs? He should have expected it. I've never heard a pair of dipoles or bipolars that did really sharp pinpoint imaging. Nature of the beast. They can do that immersion thing really well, though.

Tim

[jazdoc]

I'm a big fan of pin point imaging. It is not natural. The band at the local club, or even the ensemble of acoustic musicians in my living room do not image as precisely as my monitors do, but I personally find pinpoint imaging to be a good replacement for the visual cues you get in a performance. Is the positioin of that trumpet a bit more cut out and clearly delinated in the horizontal space than it would ever be in most venues? Sure. But I can't look at the trumpet player to precisely locate him at home in front of the speakers.

Just a helpful illusion.

I agree with Tim that pinpoint imaging is not natural and I think he is spot on regarding the illusion of imaging as a substitute for visual cues. Unlike Tim, for me, pinpoint imaging is pretty low on the audiophile checklist. Dynamics (both macro and micro) and tone saturation are more important for my taste. Perhaps these sort of differences help account for why people can have such widely divergent opinions about specific pieces of gear??

[Keith_W]

I agree with Tim that pinpoint imaging is not natural and I think he is spot on regarding the illusion of imaging as a substitute for visual cues. Unlike Tim, for me, pinpoint imaging is pretty low on the audiophile checklist. Dynamics (both macro and micro) and tone saturation are more important for my taste.

I definitely agree with that. If your interest is listening to music, you want it to sound engaging - so you want dynamics and good tone. Imaging has always been low on my checklist as well.

[Gregadd]

I definitely agree with that. If your interest is listening to music, you want it to sound engaging - so you want dynamics and good tone. Imaging has always been low on my checklist as well.

Imaging is one of those things you don't miss until it's not present.

If I can describe what I'm looking for without setting off ahuge debate. I want to localise an instrument or voice but I also want it to have proper dispersion. Look aty a dart board. Imagine the instrument is the center ring. Now imagine the outer rings are also coming at you. Giving you the full image of the instrument.

[Robh3606]

And is it really important to you?

I enjoy speakers that image well however I agree with Tim it's not realistic. I have actually changed out waveguides to go with one that didn't image as shaply as the other for that reason. They image very well but not as precise as the previous pair. Too sharp and it's like a point in space I like it a bit less so it gives the illusion of being a little wider if that makes any sense.

Rob

[NorthStar]

There is a review of Martin Logan Montis in the latest Stereophile. The writer complains that the speaker does not do pin point imaging as well as other speakers. (The rest of the review is quite positive.)

Is pin point imaging about making design choices to make the speaker sound like the real thing? Who really thinks about imaging listening to music? Or is it an audiophile invented concept?

Where does the concept of pin point imaging originate? An artifact of reproducing music?

And is it really important to you?

In Stereophile's September 2012 issue right?

And who is that reviewer?

[microstrip]

I've never heard a pair of dipoles or bipolars that did really sharp pinpoint imaging. Nature of the beast. They can do that immersion thing really well, though.
Tim

Tim,
You have to listen to Quad ESL63 - they can do pinpoint imaging. It is one of the very few dipoles that is used for professional monitoring in classical music.

[Whatmore]

Tim,
You have to listen to Quad ESL63 - they can do pinpoint imaging. It is one of the very few dipoles that is used for professional monitoring in classical music.

I think the Sanders Electrostats are deliberately designed to 'beam' and hence produce pinpoint imaging.

[lloydelee21]

I definitely agree with that. If your interest is listening to music, you want it to sound engaging - so you want dynamics and good tone. Imaging has always been low on my checklist as well.

Same for me. i tend to listen off-axis anyway while i am working. Plus, there is an interesting interview with the Head of Transparent Audio where she seems to focus likewise...with soundstaging/imaging something that she considers low on the chart and an artifact of reproduction anyway.