Power cords - do they really make a difference, other than potentially reduce noise?

vinylphilemag

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The agrument, in my humble opinion, falls apart when you consider that an exotic PC represents the last few feet in a very long feed from your utility. A feed that is NOT shielded and is subjected to all sorts of harmonics and other nasties. But hell, if there were no self deception, this hobby it would be no fun at all.

There's a school of thought that suggests that from the amplifier's perspective, an exotic PC represents the FIRST few feet of a very long feed...

I'm actually on the fence on the whole PC debate at present, because I've not actually performed any experiments of my own (and I'm not talking about DBT!). So like all things audio I haven't actually experienced myself, I remain open-minded but a bit sceptical.
 

es347

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If it does somehow filter noise Steve, it does so in a very mysterious way. Analogue filters are RLC networks and a PC that can mimic that is beyond me even though I'm purported to be all knowing:p
 

mep

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I only have experience with one magic power cord and that was a Shunyata. For some reason that I can't fathom, part of their design for this magic PC was to lift the ground. I didn't notice that little warning label on the package until after I installed the magic PC on my Jadis Defy 7 MKII. My Jadis immediately started humming which it had never done before (hell, that might have been what blew my initial cathode fuse and started my problem). I quickly put the magic PC back into its package and sold it some other audiophile on Audiogon. I hope he likes it.

PC technology has been around for a long time in this country. We know how to size a power cord for the amount of current it is expected to handle and we know how to shield wire if the application calls for it.
I am just not sure about all of the claims that people make about PCs lifting more veils than a middle-eastern gigolo.
 

ack

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If it does somehow filter noise Steve, it does so in a very mysterious way. Analogue filters are RLC networks and a PC that can mimic that is beyond me even though I'm purported to be all knowing:p

I would suggest taking a look at the MIT networked PCs that purportedly include 'impedance stabilization' networks - this is also science we can all look up, and impedance stabilization is partly about filtering higher-than-60-Hz frequencies. Wikipedia has a small and concise article on the merits of this circuit.

For non-networked power cords, I have proven to myself that _at least shielding_ can lower noise - NOT the noise that may be inherit in the power line coming into my house, but the noise (hum) emitted by the power cable itself. For example, using my very sensitive phono stage as the guinea pig, I experiment with all kinds of power cords, using the Revox R2R at max gain to measure background noise (no music playing). Using stock power cords to the phono and also *around* the phono stage in other components, clearly makes a measurable and audible (hum) difference. In fact, even moving all the power cords around the RCA inputs of the phono makes dramatic difference! Then, I plug in shielded cords to the phono and components around it, and the hum is greatly diminished.

So perhaps some of the improvements people hear can be explained by the assumed reduced electrical and magnetic fields escaping from better power cords??? I can tell you this much - Home Depot sells a little $10 tool that's got a little coil tip to measure stray magnetic fields - you stick it to the wall outlet to see if it's live; it's dead when I touch my shielded Siltechs and very noisy (its indication of the presence of such a field) around my Sidewinder CXs. Draw your own conclusions.

At the same time, I also remain skeptical as to how might non-networked power cords be able to filter noise that's in the line itself, if they do... So I then experimented further, with a Shunyata to _one_ of the Spectral amps, and the stock power cord to the other. I can hear absolutely no difference whatsoever, even in mono. Perhaps my ears are not sensitive enough, perhaps the power supplies in these amps are good enough, perhaps there is no real noise in my power lines, or perhaps I am missing something else...
 
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Bigfish8

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Apr 20, 2010
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I purchased after market PCs prior to installing two dedicated 20 amp circuits with dedicated cryoed outlets served by 12 guage Romex. Installing the dedicated circuits was much less expensive than one power cord and I felt it make a very substantial impact in sound quality. There is probably a very sound reason why I realized the improvement but I feel it was because I eliminated potential noise issues. Anyway, I am a believer in finding the right cables (synergy) for your system but not until you have selected all of the components. I also think treating the audio room is much more important than spending money on cables.

Ken
 

naturephoto1

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Before completing my listening room, I installed 3 20 amp lines using 10-2 Cryogenically Treated Romex, 5 Oyaide R1 Cryoed and Cooked 20A Receptacles, and 2 Oyaide WPC-Z Carbon Fiber Face Plate outlet covers. The Romex, Oyaide R1 receptacles and Oyaide WPC-Z outlet covers were obtained from Chris VenHaus of VH Audio.

In addition, I use 2 Isolation transformers, 3 power conditioners, plus between 14 and 16 Analysis Plus Oval 2 Power Cords with Oyaide 079 ends, 4 VALAB/TimePortal Silver Power Cords (2 with isolation transformers on the digital transports/Blue-ray players), and one with MIT wire made with the Oyaide 079 ends.

Unfortunately, at this point, I am not sure how much benefit to the audio performance, transparency, bass, imaging, soundstage, etc. to attribute to what. I have little question though that the Power Cords do help very much in my system.

Rich
 
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mep

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Rich-Wow. You have cryoed everything in your system. Like Steve, I never understood the benefit to that. You freeze something and thaw it out and now it is permanently different? I understand the effects of heat-treating metals, I damn sure don't understand the benefits of freezing everything in your audio signal path other than to people who are in the cryo business. I suppose it magically aligns all of the molecules some how and in such a way that it improves your sound.

When I built my addition so I could have a dedicated stereo room, I did have a separate 100 amp breaker box installed to just feed the addition. So all of my circuits in my stereo room are on dedicated lines. Nothing is cryoed though. I wonder if you could cryo your wife when you first get married in your twenties and she would always stay young looking? That might be worth coughing some cash up for if it worked.
 
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Bigfish8

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Apr 20, 2010
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Ken

what do you figure "cryoed" outlets added to the improved sonic benefit

Steve:

To be honest, darn if I know if they make any difference. I did not blind test them versus the standard outlets I was using before I installed the dedicated circuits/lines and outlets. Since I was investing in the dedicated lines it just seemed to make sense to install high quality outlets that others were touting for audio.

Ken
 

ack

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I am attaching pictures of the Home Depot outlet testing tool to see the effectiveness of shielded cords vs. the unshielded Shunyata Sidewinder CX
tester1..jpg tester2..jpg tester3..jpg
I also want to point out that the new Black Mamba CX's do not appear to exhibit a stray field, so that's a welcome improvement.
 
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FrantzM

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Apr 20, 2010
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Hi

Out of the gates... In my expereince Power cords don't make any diference once electrically adequate. I will however suggest the following to the members of this forum: Use the Home Depot Outlet Testing Tool, see ack's previous post, or equivalent to bring ALL your components to the same electrical polarity. This may require some tweaking as some components are improperly wired. Once done, the results can vary from (repeatable) startling to subtle but difference and improvement you will hear.

Frantz
 

Nicholas Bedworth

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In my experience, power cords have such pronounced effects that they can dominate the "voicing" of an entire system. There's an enormous difference in how power cords sound in a given system. And it is generally true that power cords from a given vendor, meaning usually, the same designer or engineer, sound quite similar from what I've heard. Most of my experience is with WireWorld, AudioQuest, Cardas and Tara Labs. It's not hard to tell them apart, or describe how they affect the timbre, soundstage and imaging.
 

Bigfish8

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In my experience, power cords have such pronounced effects that they can dominate the "voicing" of an entire system. There's an enormous difference in how power cords sound in a given system. And it is generally true that power cords from a given vendor, meaning usually, the same designer or engineer, sound quite similar from what I've heard. Most of my experience is with WireWorld, AudioQuest, Cardas and Tara Labs. It's not hard to tell them apart, or describe how they affect the timbre, soundstage and imaging.

Nicholas:

You have likely read the previous posts and there are those of us that hear differences with power cords and there are those that do not. I don't understand why they make an impact, don't really care to, but through double blind testing (yes, double blind testing) was surprised to hear the differences a swap in PCs can have on a system. The only issue I have with aftermarket PCs is their cost. PCs and ICs may be the highest margin products sold in the audio business.

Maybe the real value of a thread such as this one is to emphasize the need to evaluate each piece of gear you add to your system. If you put something new in and you don't hear a difference then that product offers no value - why purchase or keep it? This hobby is difficult because trying to maximize the potential of a system is really all about trial and error. Unfortunately, some trials turn-out to be busts and can be expensive lessons.

Ken
 

MylesBAstor

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Apr 20, 2010
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Nicholas:

You have likely read the previous posts and there are those of us that hear differences with power cords and there are those that do not. I don't understand why they make an impact, don't really care to, but through double blind testing (yes, double blind testing) was surprised to hear the differences a swap in PCs can have on a system. The only issue I have with aftermarket PCs is their cost. PCs and ICs may be the highest margin products sold in the audio business.

Maybe the real value of a thread such as this one is to emphasize the need to evaluate each piece of gear you add to your system. If you put something new in and you don't hear a difference then that product offers no value - why purchase or keep it? This hobby is difficult because trying to maximize the potential of a system is really all about trial and error. Unfortunately, some trials turn-out to be busts and can be expensive lessons.

Ken

If I might add, I think that too many audiophiles put a new component/cord/etc into the system and never switch back to their original piece. Sometimes one can be surprised that the original piece was actually better.
 

Nicholas Bedworth

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Based upon my own trial and error experiments over the years, especially the error part, one also has to keep in mind that sometimes the physical action of removing a cable that's been in place for some time might actual serve as a kind of contact cleaning, such that what replaces the old cable has a good chance at sounding better :). Others have pointed this out as well, but here in Hawaii, corrosion is always a problem, as hardly anyone lives more than 4-5 miles from the ocean, which of course is an excellent salt spray dispenser.
 

RogerD

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I have about every NBS PC,which includes the signature,master,pro and statement. Each one is one step better but each has it's own group of qualities. The mark of NBS is a lower noise floor.

I have learned that I prefer the statements on everything but the amplfiers. Since I have master speaker cables,they sound best with matching PC's on my monoblocks. I still use statement IC's from preamp to my amplifiers though.

If I switch to statememt PC's from masters on the amps the system loses it's natural sounding balance.

I once figured I would try a Elrod PS2? the result was that one PC, raised the noise floor so much,it degraded the entire system and lost the magic,I have come to enjoy.
 

DonH50

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In my experience, power cords have such pronounced effects that they can dominate the "voicing" of an entire system. There's an enormous difference in how power cords sound in a given system. And it is generally true that power cords from a given vendor, meaning usually, the same designer or engineer, sound quite similar from what I've heard. Most of my experience is with WireWorld, AudioQuest, Cardas and Tara Labs. It's not hard to tell them apart, or describe how they affect the timbre, soundstage and imaging.

More than speakers and room interaction? I am a serious doubter but obviously need to try a few if that's the case. Can the effects be heard on a less than SOTA system?
 

Nicholas Bedworth

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Maui, where else?
They're right up there with speakers and room, as a subset of the "cable" category. Yes, they'll make a big difference on medium-priced systems, for sure.
 

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