http://www.ultraaudio.com/index.php...st-give-me-a-break&catid=25:opinion&Itemid=27
Enjoy, hopefully . . .
Enjoy, hopefully . . .
Objectivist or Subjectivist? Give Me a Break
- Thread starter Jeff Fritz
- Start date
http://www.ultraaudio.com/index.php...st-give-me-a-break&catid=25:opinion&Itemid=27
Enjoy, hopefully . . .
Thank-you for writing what I was thinking. I've been on fire too much lately!
In an earlier article she proclaims the Grimm AD1 as the de facto DSD converter when in fact, she has never even used one!
I do think there is more than a grain of truth to some of the things she said. For example, the point she made about objectivists not trusting their ears. I have read that exact same statement numerous times on this forum from objectivists. I do believe there are ‘hardcore’ objectivists and I also believe that lots of audiophiles have one foot in both camps. It’s not cut and dry.
At least as far as forum arguments go, their position is that they don't trust the *other camp's* ears.
That is what triggers the food fights. That one person says the other is wrong. Not what they personally believe and don't impose on others....Hmmm. You left one out. Hardcore subjectivist. Does that camp not exist?
I remember in the late 70's and 80's, Yamaha and Sony used listening panels to determine what the outcome of their final products would be.
I can imagine the engineers, toiling into the night with S/N ratios, frequency response curves, engineering feats to assemble circuits and testing, sourcing materials etc. being utterly outraged at being sent back to the drawing board by a bunch of flitty aesthetes. Made for some nice sounding products, though.
When the engineeres do 99 percent of the actual work/labor, just to have an armchair quarterback sitting on his duff and rendering profound, earth embracing pronouncements concerning its merits and demerits, it tends to breed bad feelings.
That's kind of how I see the objectivist/ subjectivist thing. One guy does all the work while the other gets to enjoy all the BS.
On the other hand, music is ART, and that does leave the field wide open.
I can imagine the engineers, toiling into the night with S/N ratios, frequency response curves, engineering feats to assemble circuits and testing, sourcing materials etc. being utterly outraged at being sent back to the drawing board by a bunch of flitty aesthetes. Made for some nice sounding products, though.
When the engineeres do 99 percent of the actual work/labor, just to have an armchair quarterback sitting on his duff and rendering profound, earth embracing pronouncements concerning its merits and demerits, it tends to breed bad feelings.
That's kind of how I see the objectivist/ subjectivist thing. One guy does all the work while the other gets to enjoy all the BS.
On the other hand, music is ART, and that does leave the field wide open.
I'm considered a card-carrying, fire-breathing objectivist by many around here, and I trust my ears. I'm just wary of my biases and the effect they can have on my perceptions. Some seem to think that trusting their ears means denying their biases. If you think you can switch between a midfi AV receiver (making this up as I go along...) and the gleaming, beautiful free-standing DAC you've just invested a few grand in with your eyes wide open and not be affected by bias, you're not a subjectivist, you're a fool.
Tim
Tim
I'm considered a card-carrying, fire-breathing objectivist by many around here, and I trust my ears. I'm just wary of my biases and the effect they can have on my perceptions. Some seem to think that trusting their ears means denying their biases. If you think you can switch between a midfi AV receiver (making this up as I go along...) and the gleaming, beautiful free-standing DAC you've just invested a few grand in with your eyes wide open and not be affected by bias, you're not a subjectivist, you're a fool. Really trust your ears; close your eyes. See what you hear then.
Oh, and by the way, I don't know what kind of fairy dust that lady's been sniffing, but subjectivists are not the live and let live, loving, it's all good sweethearts she paints a picture of. Log onto Computer Audiophile or Audio Asylum or Pink Fish media and make a statement about a modest component, any modest component, measuring better than whatever is the elite thing dujour. Make sure you wear Kevlar. A lot of these guys call themselves subjectivists because the objective data doesn't support their beliefs. That doesn't mean they don't think they're right and everyone who disagrees is wrong.
Tim
Oh, and by the way, I don't know what kind of fairy dust that lady's been sniffing, but subjectivists are not the live and let live, loving, it's all good sweethearts she paints a picture of. Log onto Computer Audiophile or Audio Asylum or Pink Fish media and make a statement about a modest component, any modest component, measuring better than whatever is the elite thing dujour. Make sure you wear Kevlar. A lot of these guys call themselves subjectivists because the objective data doesn't support their beliefs. That doesn't mean they don't think they're right and everyone who disagrees is wrong.
Tim
I am both. In my regular line of work I am a hard nosed objectivist. If the science doesn't pass muster then it's unproven. Because I pay so much attention to the science involved, I am more aware than most of its limitations. What something does in the lab is completely different to the real world. Any blind tests need to have controls in place, otherwise they are meaningless. If you believe in the DBT's that say that MP3's sound the same as CD, or that a 1970's solid state amp is state of the art because DBT's can't show any difference, you are not an objectivist. You are a fool.
Name calling and flame throwing are not just "performed" by Computer Audiophile or Audio Asylum or Pink Fish media, they occur on this forum and now even on this thread!
Similar threads
Staff online
-
treitz3Super Moderator
Members online
- MasterparK
- Anthony Ho
- Mike Lavigne
- Nirlin
- RyanTX
- blackswan
- jazdoc
- zacho
- nicoludio
- Massimo66
- tonytsui
- Phantom-Audio
- J007B
- nirodha
- jhung168
- earlinarizona
- rpk
- Young Skywalker
- neac1976
- andrew1
- dennis h
- thekong
- treitz3
- MusicFellow
- Downtheline
- Ampman
- pdxaudio
- KeithR
- SlapEcho
- wcheng
- directdriver
- PLiXiR Power James Soh
- Ron Resnick
- Mark212121
- jbrrp1
- saturdayboy
- Gregadd
- AudioHR
- rob
- cal3713
- kyoya78
 | Steve Williams Site Founder | Site Owner | Administrator |  | Ron Resnick Site Co-Owner | Administrator |  | Julian (The Fixer) Website Build | Marketing Managersing |