Adjusting Left/Right Balance

tmallin

WBF Technical Expert
May 19, 2010
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I used to think that the ability to make fine adjustments to the left/right balance for different material was absolutely necessary for best realism in my home reference rig. I still find that left/right and front/back balance is highly critical in an auto environment, basically because the driver's seat isn't in the middle of the left/right and front/back speakers, and driving positions vary much from driver to driver.

For my home two-channel set-ups, however, in recent years I have found that the best solution--one which cannot be matched by fiddling with the balance control--is to acoustically match the left and right channels by very careful speaker and listener placement in a room designed for left/right structural symmetry, and even-handed acoustical treatments of the left and right side of the room.

I try to get the speakers to match in distance from the listening position to within 1/16 inch. That is tough, but can sometimes be done with patience and the right tools. Certainly 1/4 inch is achievable. Equalizing the degree of toe in and other aspects of physical positioning is also important. While some folks try de-centering both the speaker and listening positions with respect to the left and right walls in order to avoid the effect of room mode nulls which occur at the center position, in my experience, in a small to moderate sized listening room, this is less important than keeping the speakers and listener equi-distant from side walls in order to maintain proper left/right balance.

The main reason that balance controls don't work as well as you might at first think is that while they can change the relative amplitude of the left and right channels, they cannot correct for phasing, time of arrival, or tonal balance shift problems. The best stereo imaging and staging requires very close matching of these three factors as well as amplitude in the sound from the left and right speakers. See here for an easy-to-understand discussion of how we perceive space from recordings and in concerts.

I use a simply miked centered speaking voice or announcer to make final judgments for this aspect of system set up. A single monophonic mike pickup in an acoustically dead control room atmosphere is ideal, such as the announcers on my local classical station, WFMT, or the announcers on any number of test disks, including the Stereophile Test CD2, Test CD3, and the Sheffield/XLO Test and Burn-In CD.

Once your set up is correct, such sources are truly centered and occupy a very small subtended angle in the center of the stage without smear to the left or right, up or down, or front to back. Done properly, a simply miked announcer's position will not change at all if a stereo/mono switch is flipped back and forth.

In my book, if you find that you routinely use the balance control at an off-center position of the control, there is something wrong with your equipment, your ears, or your room/room treatment. But once set up the way I have done it, sure, you will hear small (or not so small) left/right shifts of announcers and program material, but it really doesn't help the realism to attempt to correct these flawed program sources with an electronic balance control. Yes, the left/right balance can be made more equal, but for the reasons mentioned above and explained at the link, you lose other important aspects of realistic staging and imaging and the overall effect is no better and usually not as good.

By the way, some feel that a simply miked recording of an announcer in which the left and right channels are recorded out of phase is the best test for getting the left/right balance correct, the goal being to maximize the "diffuse and directionless quality" of such program material. I disagree. I find it much easier to judge the tightness of center focus than the degree of diffuseness and directionlessness of the same source. Until you really hear what a great set up can do in terms of a centered mono image, you will probably have no idea what a maximally "diffuse and directionless" quality played back in stereo should sound like.

For those who want to try using an out-of-phase source as a test, let me tell you that on something like the track 3 of the Sheffield/XLO Test and Burn-In CD, with proper set up the voice should be so diffuse and directionless that the location of the voice cannot be determined in the front/back or up and down dimensions, much less left and right. Slight head movements can shift the apparent source anywhere in the room, including anywhere behind you.
 

amirm

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To me, this kind of alignment is best done with a room correction system. Its measurements of delay and level would be more accurate than anything one can do manually.
 

JackD201

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When I set up systems for clients, many are bothered when, visually, the loudspeakers are not perfectly symmetrical. Like Tom said the vast majority of rooms are not built symmetrically. Not even the best control rooms are because there will always be door. As a result measuring with a tape measure and following equilateral triangles, cardas method, rule of thirds, audio physic, master etc. etc. can only get one so far.

It is often necessary to set up loudspeakers slightly off in distance, rake angle and toe in/out angle relative to each other and the listening position to get the phantom images to lock and stack.

I use DRC too but I always make sure to do as much as I can manually before I resort to it. I figure the less processing required, the more efficient will the DRC be. Gawd that sounded like Yoda speak.

I apologize. Had a heck of a bender last night! :)
 

Gregadd

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Apr 20, 2010
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My Allnic does not have a balance control! For a long time I didn't use a preamp or linestage. Balance is not that important when you have such a small sweet spot. (ML/CLS)
 

audioguy

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Apr 20, 2010
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Even in "perfectly" symmetrical rooms, the response at the listening position will usually not be identical in the left and right speakers no matter how careful you adjust speaker position and listening position. I'm out of town right now or would post FR of my left and right speakers and you will see the FR differences. And with 10 years of measuring rooms in another life, I can never remember a case of seeing iddential room response --- very close but not identical. I totally agree with Amir that DRC (in my case the TacT) is the best way to get almost identical room response at the listening position. And it is also a great way to FIND the room's acoustical center.
 

tmallin

WBF Technical Expert
May 19, 2010
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To me, this kind of alignment is best done with a room correction system. Its measurements of delay and level would be more accurate than anything one can do manually.

I do have aTacT RCS 2.2XP and know what you mean and agree that this may be better. But for those who do not want to subject their system sound to any further digital processing and degradation, this mechanical "analog" method does not add any sort of distortion. And I believe the TacT's processing, at least in its stock form, adds at least a bit of digital glare and edge.
 

tmallin

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May 19, 2010
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Even in "perfectly" symmetrical rooms, the response at the listening position will usually not be identical in the left and right speakers no matter how careful you adjust speaker position and listening position. I'm out of town right now or would post FR of my left and right speakers and you will see the FR differences. And with 10 years of measuring rooms in another life, I can never remember a case of seeing iddential room response --- very close but not identical. I totally agree with Amir that DRC (in my case the TacT) is the best way to get almost identical room response at the listening position. And it is also a great way to FIND the room's acoustical center.

With the mechanical method I described, you may get better results if you measure from the speaker to the geometrically centered microphone than just by adjusting the speakers so that they are equal distance from their respective side walls and the wall behind them. Also, adjustment of toe in is critical. I'll go into that in another post.
 

RBFC

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Apr 20, 2010
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Symmetrical placement (in what seems to be a symmetrical room) can be affected by the density of the walls on each side. You may have one external wall and one interior wall as boundaries. Each will behave differently with regards to flex and absorption.

Lee
 

Steve Williams

Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
With the mechanical method I described, you may get better results if you measure from the speaker to the geometrically centered microphone than just by adjusting the speakers so that they are equal distance from their respective side walls and the wall behind them. Also, adjustment of toe in is critical. I'll go into that in another post.

Tom, I'm with you on the mechanical method. My speakers front, back and sides all sit exactly the same distance from the corresponding walls to within 1/4 inch or less
 

audioguy

WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
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Symmetrical placement (in what seems to be a symmetrical room) can be affected by the density of the walls on each side. You may have one external wall and one interior wall as boundaries. Each will behave differently with regards to flex and absorption.

Lee

Correct. Hence why I used the term perfectly in quotes. My room is exactly like that. Short of starting from scratch, that will normally be the case.
 

tmallin

WBF Technical Expert
May 19, 2010
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Symmetrical placement (in what seems to be a symmetrical room) can be affected by the density of the walls on each side. You may have one external wall and one interior wall as boundaries. Each will behave differently with regards to flex and absorption.

I agree. That's why I made sure all my listening room's walls were roughly equivalent by making them all poured concrete. No matter which corners I put my stereo subwoofers in, the left and right subwoofer responses match quite well.
 

tmallin

WBF Technical Expert
May 19, 2010
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Tom, I'm with you on the mechanical method. My speakers front, back and sides all sit exactly the same distance from the corresponding walls to within 1/4 inch or less

Those with very large heavy speakers, especially if those speakers are spiked, may find the mechanical method quite frustrating. It is difficult to move a large 500-pound object a small fraction of an inch without altering toe in and then matching that movement in the other speaker. It gets more difficult as the speaker weight goes up and as the degrees of freedom decrease. Big heavy speakers spiked to the floor will be quite difficult to move precisely. I know that Wilson provides special tools for jacking up th speakers and moving them and then reapplying the spikes, but I imagine it is still difficult to move them and then re-spike them without the spiking changing the placement you thought you had. And many other big speakers don't come with such tools.

My point is that those with large heavy speakers, especially if they are spiked to the floor, may well appreciate the abilities of DSP units to make up for the difficulty in getting the physical placement more than approximately correct. They are also probably better able to afford the better DSP units.
 

JackD201

WBF Founding Member
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I sure am glad that my 700lbs worth of speakers come with casters.
 

JackD201

WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
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I'm gladder I didn't have to carry them :lol: Not so glad I had to install a cargo lift in my new house just to make sure they will get to the dungeon safely :(
 

Ron Party

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Apr 30, 2010
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Even in "perfectly" symmetrical rooms, the response at the listening position will usually not be identical in the left and right speakers no matter how careful you adjust speaker position and listening position. I'm out of town right now or would post FR of my left and right speakers and you will see the FR differences. And with 10 years of measuring rooms in another life, I can never remember a case of seeing iddential room response --- very close but not identical. I totally agree with Amir that DRC (in my case the TacT) is the best way to get almost identical room response at the listening position. And it is also a great way to FIND the room's acoustical center.
To state nothing of the fact that we do not listen for any meaningful period of time with our heads in a vise (i.e., 1/4 inch head movements are a virtual given), and combine that with the fact that our ears are not necessarily symmetrical (i.e., one ear may be higher, lower, more forward, etc.) Paging Kal.

I agree completely with your DRC assessment.
 

tmallin

WBF Technical Expert
May 19, 2010
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To state nothing of the fact that we do not listen for any meaningful period of time with our heads in a vise (i.e., 1/4 inch head movements are a virtual given), and combine that with the fact that our ears are not necessarily symmetrical (i.e., one ear may be higher, lower, more forward, etc.) Paging Kal.

I agree completely with your DRC assessment.

The TacT only measures at a single point. Move a bit and the TacT correction no longer applies. Other DRC systems may measure at multiple points to widen the "sweet spot," but they necessarily involve some compromises. The sweet spot is not so sweet. Thus, you are still limited to a very small "best listening" area even with DRC.
 

Ron Party

WBF Founding Member
Apr 30, 2010
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Oakland, CA
The TacT only measures at a single point. Move a bit and the TacT correction no longer applies. Other DRC systems may measure at multiple points to widen the "sweet spot," but they necessarily involve some compromises. The sweet spot is not so sweet. Thus, you are still limited to a very small "best listening" area even with DRC.
Tom, isn't this a given? I mean, even without TacT, isn't there only one sweet spot. Move a little bit to the right or left, or raise or lower the listening chair, and, depending on the speakers and room, one may have vacated the sweet spot. I know when I listen to Steve's Alexandrias in his room, one butt cheek's movement to the left or right, or extending my neck up or down by only a few inches, has a profound impact on the sound.

Of course this isn't to state I disagree with anything you wrote in your initial post. Far from it. IMO, the best that we can do without some sort of DRC is precisely that which you described. Again, however, with or without DRC, we still have the hurdles I previously described, to-wit: head/body movement while listening and anatomical asymmetries.

I suppose then the related question becomes: how wide and/or tall is the sweet spot?

OT: I know you own Harbeth speakers. I suspect you are aware of the interesting discussion at the Harbeth User Group about audio memory and sound comparison:

http://www.harbeth.co.uk/usergroup/showthread.php?878-Human-hearing-hearing-loss-and-audio-memory

Alan Shaw, the designer of Harbeth speakers, provided some interesting perspective from the point of view of a speaker designer. It seems as though he is on the pathway toward creating his own ABX box.

It'd be great if somehow we could get Alan Shaw to join WBF and start a thread on this interesting subject. Do you have a connection?
 

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