Mike Fremer and an interesting observation

John P · Jul 29, 2012

I just sampled the track on iTunes, and to me, the sample sounds like it's somewhere in between the CD and LP on the video (and it sounds quite good). The iTunes track is more full than the CD on the video with the vocal more prominent. To my ears, the CD sounds more right on the video, but neither sounds good, with the LP being way too muddy/muffled.

After listening to the 90 second sample on iTunes, I don't think there's much value in comparing what's presented in the video, but it will probably get me to buy the album.

amirm · Jul 29, 2012

I think the problem here may have been that they used two completely different audio systems for playback possibly including different speakers. When they play the LP the level is way down and the sound more distant from the mic I seem to recall. It is therefore possible that the camcorder mic is not pointed at the tweeter of the LP system but was so for CD.

cjfrbw · Jul 29, 2012

I don't know why anybody is attempting to seriously compare these cuts at all through a digital feed, interesting observations aside.

When I saw the video when it came out several years ago, I was more interested in the reactions of the participants and their discussion, which seemed to be the point.

Phelonious Ponk · Jul 29, 2012

cjfrbw said:
I don't know why anybody is attempting to seriously compare these cuts at all through a digital feed, interesting observations aside.

When I saw the video when it came out several years ago, I was more interested in the reactions of the participants and their discussion, which seemed to be the point.

For our own amusement, clearly.

.

Tim

NorthStar · Jul 29, 2012

I am very curious here; how much real weight do you guys give to everything Michael Fremer said?

* Just as one of several examples (because I've been reading this reviewer since he very first started reviewing); in his latest review of the NAD T 787 A/V Receiver, he terminated his review by saying: "Overall, the NAD T 787 is the best-sounding A/V receiver I've yet heard." - HomeTheater August 2012

And if you look at his ratings for Audio Performance, Video Performance, Features, Ergonomics, & Value; it just don't make any sense at all!

Plus, he said that it is a "future-proof modular design". What!!! ...With only seven power amps, no MultEQ XT32, no Audyssey DSX, no Pro Logic IIz, and a whole lot more ...

And he said that those seven amplifiers are powerful!!! ...98.9 watts at 0.1% THD into 8 Ohm loads, what's so powerful about that?
Plus the front panel "exudes simplicity and maintains an industrial design esthetic"!!! It is ugly! Other manufacturers have much nicer designs, and much more simple too.

Sorry, for that small interlude but I think that any article or review needs some real insight on the people who write them, no?
And I can give you a multitude of other similar examples just on Michael Fremer's reviews and articles.

For me, real integrity and intelligence are must have values for any serious discussion on things that matter the most to us. No?

Phono (analog) has its own attributes and qualities, so is CD (digital).
And the choice we made at the end is a direct reflection of our own personal preferences (sound quality preference, practicality, accessibility, ergonomics, ease of use, and all that jazz.).

There aren't two distinct camps really; there is simply a vast audience out there with all different views of their own and applicable in real life.

There, I said my

Phelonious Ponk · Jul 29, 2012

I don't pay much attention to what Fremer says. I think the guy's a bit of a nutter.

Tim

NorthStar · Jul 29, 2012

---Thanx Tim, you seem to agree with my line of thought. :b

* And by the way, Congrats on reaching 5,000 posts!

Phelonious Ponk · Jul 29, 2012

Yeah. 5,000. No prize.

Tim

NorthStar · Jul 29, 2012

Phelonious Ponk said:
Yeah. 5,000. No prize.

Tim

-----The prize is the privilege to post here, at WBF. :b

...You didn't expect a medal did you?

valkyrie · Jul 29, 2012

Mr. Mike started as a stand up comedian - a nice guy, fun to be around, gracious and kind - and very much a vociferously vituperative vehemently vicious vinylista. Hey - everybody believes in something and in the end - whatever it is - we believe on faith alone.

Maybe Mike changed the level when it came time to play the vinyl? Who knows what he was doing - the turntable was in front of him.

I am generally of the belief that vinyl is an inferior medium for the transfer of music - as the Perspicaciously Persistent Ponkster noted - all vinyl does is dollop on a big spoon of mid-range gravy - but hey if that floats your boat - then why not? Just don't claim - as all the vinylistas do - that somehow this load of animal fat and spices is actually "truer" and closer to the music. It is a nice euphorically euphonium distortion. Nothing more and nothing less.

But you know what? I listen to all this "gear" to access MUSIC - that thing that transforms all of us - that thing beyond our comprehension that moves us through space and time to unimaginable dimensions. It is a great joy in my life regardless of the source or whatever is creating it. So what if occasionally I take some gravy on my rice?

Bring on that gravy......

Phelonious Ponk · Jul 29, 2012

NorthStar said:
-----The prize is the privilege to post here, at WBF. :b
...You didn't expect a medal did you?

I was hoping Amir would send me a pair of JBLs.

Tim

NorthStar · Jul 29, 2012

John P said:
I just sampled the track on iTunes, and to me, the sample sounds like it's somewhere in between the CD and LP on the video (and it sounds quite good). The iTunes track is more full than the CD on the video with the vocal more prominent. To my ears, the CD sounds more right on the video, but neither sounds good, with the LP being way too muddy/muffled.

After listening to the 90 second sample on iTunes, I don't think there's much value in comparing what's presented in the video, but it will probably get me to buy the album.

-----Hey John, Welcome!

amirm · Jul 29, 2012

Phelonious Ponk said:
Yeah. 5,000. No prize.

Tim

There was a prize Tim. It was getting to post 5001. Only the people who get to 5000 get that prize! We don't hand that out to anyone else....

NorthStar · Jul 29, 2012

---...Watching the Olympic games. :b ...Under the clouds and rain.

...Tons of empty seats though.

11 to go for the big Six, Amir.

amirm · Jul 29, 2012

NorthStar said:
---...Watching the Olympic games. :b ...Under the clouds and rain. ...Tons of empty seats though.

11 to go for the big Six, Amir.

I am watching them too. Enjoyed seeing beach volleyball where both male and female US teams won! Boy, were they a step above in skill. Let's hope they keep going this way. Swimming was also good. Mostly first and second finishes.

Robh3606 · Jul 29, 2012

I was hoping Amir would send me a pair of JBLs.

Which ones?

Rob

Phelonious Ponk · Jul 30, 2012

Well, I would reach for the highest peak, but settle for something from the 6300 series

Tim

amirm · Jul 30, 2012

That would be $13/post! That's almost what investors paid that for each facebook user

JackD201 · Jul 30, 2012

I think both versions left much to be desired. My initial thought when the LP was played was, "sounds like an MM cart". Sure enough it was a Rega Exact. Not exactly representative of high end analog where MCs are used more. I mention this because MCs almost always have clearer more defined top end bad examples go as far as ringing. MMs usually have their emphasis on the midrange.

I didn't want to post anything until I actually watched the whole video which happened to be the exact time I had nothing better to do. What I did notice was there was a lot of music played on CD that sure sounded pretty good and the same with LPs, better than the one at the 1 hour mark in my opinion.

KeithR · Jul 30, 2012

I'm sorry, but I've heard analog/digital comparisons that aren't like this at all. The mix must be different or the equipment must suck. Both versions don't sound good to me btw.

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