Do you use cables to 'tune' the sonics of your system?

AudioExplorations · Jul 18, 2012

?

Clarification: Of course some degree of 'tuning' is unavoidable, but do you actively try to change the balance of the system with cables, i.e. using a particular cable that tames the treble, boosts the midrange or bass, etc.

audioarcher · Jul 18, 2012

If you put a cable in your system and it sounds more true to the source, how do you know it is not making up for deficencies elsewhere in your system? Unless you know for a fact that your system is perfect (which is impossible) then you just have to use cable that sounds correct for your system. Another alternative is to get cables that someone has decreed as perfect and build your system around them. Good luck with that appoach.

Do I use cables to tune my system? I have had the same cables for years but it took a while to find cables I was happy with. So I guess you could say I have used them for tuning but I don't constantly fool with different cables when I change something else in my system.

Perhaps if I had a lot more disposable income I would do more experimenting with different cables. As it stands now I would rather spend it on other things.

Sean

Robert · Jul 18, 2012

Of course. Why is a cable different from any other stereo component? Whether it is a tube, an amplifier, or a speaker.

Neutrality exists only in the minds of reviewers.

LenWhite · Jul 18, 2012

I expect the cables I use to be as neutral as possible so I don't use cabling as a tone control. I do use cabling all from the same manufacturer to minimize design inconsistencies, and I did hear my specific speakers with the cabling I'm using before buying. In my experience good cabling increases resolution and dynamic contrasts. Additionally good power cables (since they represent the last 2M of wire connecting the electronics to the power supply) provide a level of electrical conditioning which lowers the noise floor.

nirodha · Jul 18, 2012

AudioExplorations said:
?

Yes, we all do

Even if it is against our "religion"

microstrip · Jul 18, 2012

Surely. Using the wrong cables can kill your system! There is not such thing as the best cable in the world. There are cables that sound good in your system and cables that do not match with it. But I would love to understand why better cables are generally more expensive.

rockitman · Jul 18, 2012

Cables are extremely important to the overall tonal balance of your system. That is not subjective IME.

treitz3 · Jul 18, 2012

Cables getting out of the way? Are you serious?

Having a couple of boxes of cables [every one I have ever purchased] let's me know that cables can perform a tuning to the gear. Everything affects everything. Seeing as nobody can know how a cable can be neutral or "get out of the way" AFAIK, where is the reference for letting them get out of the way as much as possible? IMO, the poll is skewed. Folks may want to believe that they do not want to tune their system with cables and I can respect that. When you get a cable that has no "seemingly" influence on the tuning, haven't you done just that? Tuned the cable to the system to get the cable out of the way?

In other words, the two are intertwined.

Tom

NorthStar · Jul 19, 2012

---I certainly do; the more transparent, clean, clear, pure, natural, my cables are,
the more 'translucide' the choice of my loudspeakers and respect I have for them.

If I don't choose my cables carefully I might end up with some coloration, or lack of resolution.

* Fine-tuning is the smart and proper matching between all elements (components & connections).

P.S. I could have said NO and end up with the same result;
let the audio signals flow as freely and neutrally as possible.
{Why spent all that careful time to pick your loudspeakers' "Sound" in the first place.}

JackD201 · Jul 19, 2012

The problem with cables is that they never add, they just take away. Well, except noise perhaps. I'm in the get out of the way camp in that if a cable or cables are taking away, I want them to be doing it in such a way that nothing sticks out and switches my attention away from what I should be listening to. Since it is subtractive I find it easiest to evaluate in A/B comparisons. I know I am oversimplifying things since I have had cables that react or have different characters depending to the speakers they are connected to. Sharp with some, dull with others while other cables are consistent regardless of speakers. Which is the properly designed one? I haven't got the slightest clue, only that some are better in specific applications than others.

It's not that I'm against using cables for tuning response, far from it. As a transducer guy however I find it much easier to get the same results by manipulating say my carts or my speaker positioning. Something possible if cables are fairly balanced across the audible band. As far as digital goes, I just get players that fit the bill. Finally, since I have tubes, I can roll those too anywhere from linear to euphonic.

MylesBAstor · Jul 19, 2012

treitz3 said:
Cables getting out of the way? Are you serious?

Having a couple of boxes of cables [every one I have ever purchased] let's me know that cables can perform a tuning to the gear. Everything affects everything. Seeing as nobody can know how a cable can be neutral or "get out of the way" AFAIK, where is the reference for letting them get out of the way as much as possible? IMO, the poll is skewed. Folks may want to believe that they do not want to tune their system with cables and I can respect that. When you get a cable that has no "seemingly" influence on the tuning, haven't you done just that? Tuned the cable to the system to get the cable out of the way?

In other words, the two are intertwined.

Tom

I don't buy this you can't tell a neutral cable hogwash. Nor do I after listening to the most recent gen of cables from a slew of manufacturers believe that say transparency and/or resolution and musicality are mutually exclusive. Years ago, yes. No so anymore.

Can you tell which is a more neutral tonearm? Sure! You begin by listening to a series of cartridges in a that arm and seeing in which there's the greatest difference between the DUT. That harkens back to HP's comments many years ago about the breakthrough achieved by the Goldmud Reference turntable. Same goes for cables.

And yes, every piece in the system complicates the puzzle

treitz3 · Jul 19, 2012

MylesBAstor said:
I don't buy this you can't tell a neutral cable hogwash.

Hello, Myles. What's funny is that I don't buy the "cables getting out of the way" hogwash. Different strokes for different folks I guess. Just as an example, after having two or three boxes of cables filled up, I have settled on Transparent Reference IC's. Hardly "transparent" compared to the other cables but still the best of the bunch. As far as tuning my system? They stopped at the Reference.

Tom

AudioExplorations · Jul 19, 2012

To those who have commented that cables ALWAYS impact the sonics of the system, I tend to agree, it is to a degree unavoidable. What I was trying to get at with the poll was to see how many actively try to change the balance of the system with cables, i.e. using a particular cable that tames the treble, boosts the midrange or bass, etc.

mullard88 · Jul 19, 2012

I do. To me, cables are another component in the chain and I enjoy combining components to produce the colors that suits my mood.

MylesBAstor · Jul 19, 2012

AudioExplorations said:
To those who have commented that cables ALWAYS impact the sonics of the system, I tend to agree, it is to a degree unavoidable. What I was trying to get at with the poll was to see how many actively try to change the balance of the system with cables, i.e. using a particular cable that tames the treble, boosts the midrange or bass, etc.

I should add that much of the differences, but not all, between cables, hell even components, is reduced when one addresses AC line issues. For instance, much of the bass/transparrency issues with cables isn't the cable's fault but the AC line. So the cable is only telling you what's going on.upstream and thus is really more neutral than we think.

rblnr · Jul 19, 2012

The problem with cables is that they never add, they just take away. Well, except noise perhaps. I'm in the get out of the way camp in that if a cable or cables are taking away, I want them to be doing it in such a way that nothing sticks out and switches my attention away from what I should be listening to.

I'm in this camp too. Another thing -- for me, trying to tune with cables adds yet another variable into the chain making it harder and harder to tell what's doing what. I suppose this makes me a 'speaker guy', but since it's going to be the most distinctive sounding component in the chain, you choose it for it's innate characteristics because they fit your taste/budget, then work backwards. The right amp to drive them, etc. Room/speakers/amp/preamp/source -- that's enough variables for me.

JackD201 · Jul 19, 2012

Yup. I work backwards too. Like my Dad taught me with Chess, when confused, get pieces off of the board. Simplify.

Robert · Jul 19, 2012

JackD201 said:
The problem with cables is that they never add, they just take away.

I'd have to disagree. My cables add a substantial component to the positive sound I am hearing. It may be philosophical to consider whether the cable imparts a sound or whether the cable permits you to hear your components. In my situation, I'd favor the former. The use of large quantities of fine-gauge gold and platinum wires as interconnects has resulted in a sound that could simply be described as "more real". Specifically, an increased texture, density, depth, richness while maintaining that linear, transparent, open, extended presentation. As you say, we accept this for tubes, and some can find that perfect blend. Many people tend to reject this for cables, probably because they have not heard it done in a convincingly positive way. Couple that with an overflowing market with large claims and larger prices.

In the end, the basic question is, does it sound like the gold standard: live music? Perhaps subjective, but the goal nonetheless.

JackD201 · Jul 19, 2012

Robert said:
I'd have to disagree. My cables add a substantial component to the positive sound I am hearing. It may be philosophical to consider whether the cable imparts a sound or whether the cable permits you to hear your components. In my situation, I'd favor the former. The use of large quantities of fine-gauge gold and platinum wires as interconnects has resulted in a sound that could simply be described as "more real". Specifically, an increased texture, density, depth, richness while maintaining that linear, transparent, open, extended presentation. As you say, we accept this for tubes, and some can find that perfect blend. Many people tend to reject this for cables, probably because they have not heard it done in a convincingly positive way. Couple that with an overflowing market with large claims and larger prices.

In the end, the basic question is, does it sound like the gold standard: live music? Perhaps subjective, but the goal nonetheless.

Well, I tend to look at cables with my propeller beanie on and while I do agree that they do something, they are still passive components. It's an inverse relationship at least when it comes to frequency. A cable with pronounced bass is one that lets less highs and mids through so on and so forth. That's how I see it anyway. I'm not saying your way of looking at it is wrong, just different.

There's also a matter of cost. Just thinking of how much all my cables cost makes me want to get amnesia. What were we talking about again?

Moving speakers are free and I can get a whole bunch of fantastic NOS tubes for the price of one power cord. I made a conscious effort to find "first do no wrong" types of cables before diving in check book in hand. There may be better out there but I'm not looking. Pretty much how I feel about how everything has come together actually. Except for that Atlas cartridge, man it's good. Now I have to deal with how its presence downgraded half my cartridges. So hard to strike a balance between "Ignorance is bliss" and "Nothing ventured, nothing gained". We live in the real world after all and this is just a hobby.

AudioExplorations · Jul 19, 2012

Robert said:
My cables add a substantial component to the positive sound I am hearing.

Robert said:
Specifically, an increased texture, density, depth, richness while maintaining that linear, transparent, open, extended presentation

Resistive components adding to the sound? I'm getting some strange de-ja-vu (perhaps a certain preamp/no preamp thread?)

Do you use cables to 'tune' the sonics of your system?

Do you use cables to 'tune' the sonics of your system?

Yes

No (I want them to get out of the way as much as possible)

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