USB Cable Shootout

hifial

New Member
Apr 7, 2013
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Hate to sound like a shill but just emailed my thoughts, copied verbatim here, to Mark (Sablon Audio) after installing his latest version of the data only USB cable;
"
8 hours burn in,
1st track and I'm at a loss for words,
I don't know how to describe it,
But I'll try,
Micro dynamics through the roof,
Resolution beyond anything I've heard,
Most natural sounding vocals I've EVER heard,
2nd track,
F...k me I'm welling up just trying to describe it.
You said 50%, more like 75%!!!!!!!!

Pure f...king genius
Thank you Mark"

If you're using a DAC that can accommodate a data only cable then I urge you to try this one.

I'm gobsmacked!

Blue58

HOLY CR*P BATMAN%@*&POW!! :p That is some report.

But seriously, I will be getting a latest version from Mark, soon I hope :D. I have on hand a TotalDAC USB cable and a Curious cable. I will look to compare them all as time permits and report back what I hear.

The TotalDAC and Curious sound...like opposites IMHO. Were one excels over the other in some areas the other excels over the other in other areas. I like them both for different reasons but also feel that each falls short overall. Mind you they are each about the best USB cables for the money made today. Cost no object they are in the top five. And I have heard a few.

So from ALL the very good things I have heard about the Sablon USB cable I am very anxious to hear it.
 

Alrainbow

Well-Known Member
Dec 11, 2013
3,245
1,422
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Great read I have a few questions in this usb cable mod
Anyone who is using this and getting good results please post how your source is setup.
Mine is a caps woth 4 separate reg battery supplies. There is no direct connection to line voltage no ground. As such the caps is st the potential of he dac
Next the USB cable should not be short as quoted by steve Nugent of empirical audio
1.5 Meters.
I have two cables that do not use the plus bus voltage. One is ifi the other is a PAUL
Pang modded. Also a audio gd one from a while back. I hear no change st all. I really want to understand what you guys are doing to get an improvemt please help
Thanks
 

YashN

New Member
Jun 28, 2015
951
5
0
Canada
Great read I have a few questions in this usb cable mod
Anyone who is using this and getting good results please post how your source is setup.
Mine is a caps woth 4 separate reg battery supplies. There is no direct connection to line voltage no ground. As such the caps is st the potential of he dac
Next the USB cable should not be short as quoted by steve Nugent of empirical audio
1.5 Meters.
I have two cables that do not use the plus bus voltage. One is ifi the other is a PAUL
Pang modded. Also a audio gd one from a while back. I hear no change st all. I really want to understand what you guys are doing to get an improvemt please help
Thanks

Data-only from computer to DAC, ground isolation, separate clean power from either DIY Linear Regulated PSU or a battery pack/charger, I also have a couple of additional optimisations like filtering the computer-side power planes and a special configuration for the shield on the data lines.

Additionally, adding the iMac on a DIY AC Filter line made a big difference yet again.
 

Alrainbow

Well-Known Member
Dec 11, 2013
3,245
1,422
450
If you have a cable connected it's no longer isolated the shield is grounded.
Using any kind of AC psu is also no longer isolated even if using two wires one is grounded.
Pure regulated D.C. Is isolated
 

YashN

New Member
Jun 28, 2015
951
5
0
Canada
If you have a cable connected it's no longer isolated the shield is grounded.

Not in mine.

Using any kind of AC psu is also no longer isolated even if using two wires one is grounded.
Pure regulated D.C. Is isolated

My LRP has a floating design.

When I use the battery pack/charger to power the DAC, the DAC isn't connected to mains power-side.
 

EuroDriver

Well-Known Member
Sep 16, 2015
926
2,479
450
Monaco
Hate to sound like a shill but just emailed my thoughts, copied verbatim here, to Mark (Sablon Audio) after installing his latest version of the data only USB cable;
"
8 hours burn in,
1st track and I'm at a loss for words,
I don't know how to describe it,
But I'll try,
Micro dynamics through the roof,
Resolution beyond anything I've heard,
Most natural sounding vocals I've EVER heard,
2nd track,
F...k me I'm welling up just trying to describe it.
You said 50%, more like 75%!!!!!!!!

Pure f...king genius
Thank you Mark"

If you're using a DAC that can accommodate a data only cable then I urge you to try this one.

I'm gobsmacked!

Blue58

I have always had the greatest respect for Barry's ears. I now give my highest rating to Barry's reports, spot on and hitting the nail on the head. The expletives are completely appropriate

Having lived with the new Sablon USB cable for 6 hours, what blue58 reports is exactly my sonic experience with the same cable between the SGM and the Nagra HD DAC. The sonic SQ uplift from the new sauce is in a similar order of magnitude as going from DSD 256 to DSD 512 on the T+ A DAC 8 DSD.

My USB cable history is

TotalDAC
Supra
Oyaide
Sablon with power and data in separate legs
Sablon power disconnected
Sablon no power, with new sauce added

Two thumps up, and a big slap on the back. Persistence, creativity and very good ears, Mark has delivered a very significant advance in USB cable sonics. Even more notable is that this has been achieved with DAC's with class leading isolation of their USB receivers

I am excitedly waiting for Mark's powered version of this cable to try with DAC's that need USB power
 
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EuroDriver

Well-Known Member
Sep 16, 2015
926
2,479
450
Monaco
Just to add a caveat to my post above

We all listen differently. I have been in cable shootouts where I thought one cable was Head and shoulders above another, but another audiophile thought passionately exactly the opposite.

I value in order of importance
Timbre
Harmonic structure
Microdetails
Bass texture and slam
Noise floor

What I am insensitive to is high frequency extension

This new Sablon cable which l like to nickname the Outrageous, very markedly improves all of the characteristics important to the way I listen listed above, but as always YMMV
 

YashN

New Member
Jun 28, 2015
951
5
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Canada
Two days ago, I revised my Linear Regulated PSU which is injecting clean power into the DAC via the custom USB connector after a few days of research and design and built it and listened, overall larger soundstage, expansion of all three main regions, excellent micro-details apparent especially in vocals and guitar articulations.

Today I changed one capacitor in the section I revised and this is also audible (just as the caps after the original regulator circuit).

Stellar. I have a few additional levels of enhancements planned as well, but after working on lower the noise floor, ripple and output impedance drastically, I have to wonder how this can be better. Perhaps in transient rapidity and naturalness of the highs, we'll see.
 

hifial

New Member
Apr 7, 2013
91
0
0
Two days ago, I revised my Linear Regulated PSU which is injecting clean power into the DAC via the custom USB connector after a few days of research and design and built it and listened, overall larger soundstage, expansion of all three main regions, excellent micro-details apparent especially in vocals and guitar articulations.

Today I changed one capacitor in the section I revised and this is also audible (just as the caps after the original regulator circuit).

Stellar. I have a few additional levels of enhancements planned as well, but after working on lower the noise floor, ripple and output impedance drastically, I have to wonder how this can be better. Perhaps in transient rapidity and naturalness of the highs, we'll see.

Hi. While this is all very interesting could you please tell us what commercial brands USB cables you are comparing your DIY USB too. So some of us will have a reference to what you report. Otherwise I have no clue how much of an improvement you are reporting.

Not discounting what you are sharing. Just do not have any reference to go by it.
 

YashN

New Member
Jun 28, 2015
951
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Canada
Hi. While this is all very interesting could you please tell us what commercial brands USB cables you are comparing your DIY USB too. So some of us will have a reference to what you report. Otherwise I have no clue how much of an improvement you are reporting.

Not discounting what you are sharing. Just do not have any reference to go by it.

The reference is the default USB cable that came with the DAC, an iFi iDSD Nano, and several other off-the-shelf normal USB cables.

I do not have any super expensive USB cables to compare it to. Actually, I am quite unlikely to buy one since it appears I have built a version of my own doing.

The cable which came with it is at least one-layer shielded as the outer sleeve is a transparent blue, so you can see it. I wouldn't be suprised if there's another layer of shielding, most probably via foil underneath it.
 

hifial

New Member
Apr 7, 2013
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The reference is the default USB cable that came with the DAC, an iFi iDSD Nano, and several other off-the-shelf normal USB cables.

I do not have any super expensive USB cables to compare it to. Actually, I am quite unlikely to buy one since it appears I have built a version of my own doing.

The cable which came with it is at least one-layer shielded as the outer sleeve is a transparent blue, so you can see it. I wouldn't be suprised if there's another layer of shielding, most probably via foil underneath it.

Thanks. Please do not misunderstand me as I in no way expected you to have "super expensive" USB cables but I would have thought any quality made commercial ones would be at least a benchmark. Such as a Supra or Maple Shade or well I could go on. There are many highly regarded reasonable cost ones ($60-80-100-120). I myself have had the chance to compare several in that price category. All were better, some more then others, then any off the self USB cable. But sorry to say the more reasonable USB cables fell short of the better and more costly USB cables that I tried. Though I am not saying all the more costly USB cables sound better as I have not heard them all.

Again, no offense but what comes with the iFi (I know it well) and any off the self USB cables should be easily improved upon. By how much is a guess, including yours as you have no known benchmark to compare it to. This is unfortunate because you might have exceeded many highly regarded, and worthwhile, USB cables...or not.

If you get the chance to borrow some commercial USB with the appropriate time to compare that would great.

Good luck.
 

YashN

New Member
Jun 28, 2015
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Thanks. Please do not misunderstand me as I in no way expected you to have "super expensive" USB cables but I would have thought any quality made commercial ones would be at least a benchmark.

There's a Shakespeare saying which ends with 'doth protest too much' which comes to mind, but to give you some background, the first iteration of a DIY USB cable was prompted by ideas seen in two products, one by Light Harmonic, and one by iFi themselves.

Again, no offense but what comes with the iFi (I know it well) and any off the self USB cables should be easily improved upon.

Then, by all means, go ahead and do it yourself and find out. You can get jumps in SQ with simple modifications for sure (did that a couple of years ago). Furthermore, that is also the point which is inherently valuable in itself: too many times, people (including me) satisfy themselves with the default solution - 'It just needs power, let's plug it in...', 'This requires a USB cable, let's plug it in...'

By how much is a guess, including yours as you have no known benchmark to compare it to.

On the contrary, if you had actually paid attention to what I said in my previous post, my benchmark is very clear and really simple and really one of the most well-known benchmarks ever: it is the default solution, which is what most people use taking either the USB cable which comes with the device or an off-the-shelf USB cable, which is also often a cable lying around unused.

This is unfortunate because you might have exceeded many highly regarded, and worthwhile, USB cables...or not.

It would be unfortunate if my goal was to compare with those commercial, improved cables, but that wasn't my goal at all - my goal was to see how much I can optimise my own system with little means but an understanding of the whole chain.

It appears you assume I only did one simple change in my USB cable. This is far from reality: I must have reached version 12 of it these holidays until I obtained a configuration with which I am quite satisfied (there are probably a handful of additional revisions I could do to it with potential benefits but I expect them to be incremental as the 'flabbergasting' has already occurred in 3 steps). Actually, now, I hesitate to call it a cable, as it has circuitry and an unconventional design, so a better name is a "USB Connection".

I have had to totally re-think what a proper connection for async USB audio should be ideally (instead of using USB for the usual data transfer or low-speed peripherals).

The insight gathered while researching, designing, building, listening, iterating and re-listening is invaluable, and something you don't get from buying cables left and right.

NB: I presently wouldn't be against finding out if my connection could be better than some of the commercial offerings and I am fairly certain it beats some of them as I actually compared various similar architectures here, but the process would have to be easy - I certainly won't go buy one to compare (or the several devices + cables that my USB Connector replaces but which you would have to buy individually) as I am satisfied with my SQ here and the results I have obtained.

If you get the chance to borrow some commercial USB with the appropriate time to compare that would great.

One audiophile friend I believe has an Audioquest cable, so maybe I could borrow it, but I haven't seen him in 2 or 3 years. For logistical reasons, it's hard to get him to visit.

Then, of course, come the ability, or lack thereof, to share the listening experience (with or without comparisons to existing commercial designs other than the default) and also, the ability or lack thereof to make measurements which could show where the benefits could lie.

I am actually thinking of bringing my things over to some friends' places and test in their system at one point - that could be a fun thing to do, but frankly, I'd rather they drop by themselves, as I'm too busy researching and refining the Linear Regulated PSU, it's a super-low impedance design for my DAC and it's really, really good, especially since the 12th where I reduced output impedance, noise and ripple to really low levels all in one revision.
 
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Brucemck2

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May 10, 2010
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YahN, what is the "architecture" or "configuration" of your "cable" (to include power supplies and filters) currently? It's hard to pull that out of the thread given a series of alterations and changes.
 

YashN

New Member
Jun 28, 2015
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YahN, what is the "architecture" or "configuration" of your "cable" (to include power supplies and filters) currently? It's hard to pull that out of the thread given a series of alterations and changes.

Some description is just a few posts back!
 

amirm

Banned
Apr 2, 2010
15,813
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There's a Shakespeare saying which ends with 'doth protest too much' which comes to mind, but to give you some background, the first iteration of a DIY USB cable was prompted by ideas seen in two products, one by Light Harmonic, and one by iFi themselves.
You say that but then post a bunch of protests yourself. :)

He is making an excellent point. He is saying if you can't show that your 12-step USB solution doesn't match of beat a $50 premium cable, it is of little interest to folks.

Why have you not done this comparison? Invite a friend for an AB test without telling him which is which and do a dozen rounds of switching back and forth to see what the outcome is.
 

YashN

New Member
Jun 28, 2015
951
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You say that but then post a bunch of protests yourself. :)

True, but it was more background information rather than protests, but it did make me smile when I wrote the post yesterday as it could be construed this way.

He is making an excellent point. He is saying if you can't show that your 12-step USB solution doesn't match of beat a $50 premium cable, it is of little interest to folks.

Maybe, but I'm only interested currently in pushing my system to its limits compared to the default behaviour, as this is plausibly the most common behaviour. Perhaps the second most common behaviour from people who are audiophiles and have the budget is buying several cables without really knowing what the design or architectural advantages actually are.

Why have you not done this comparison?

Too busy working on the ultra low-noise PSU for the DAC because now, that's where I get to learn a lot more than what I already did with the connector. I consider the general structure of the USB Connector done despite a little set of revisions for potential incremental upgrades.

And in case you missed it: I am not going to buy a commercial cable.

Invite a friend for an AB test without telling him which is which and do a dozen rounds of switching back and forth to see what the outcome is.

We had a few listening sessions with two sets of friends (two couples) dropping by during the holidays. I made them listen to three things:

1. The default USB cable

2. My DIY USB connector with an iPhone charger (this is still an SMPS)

3. My DIY USB connector with my DIY Low-Noise Linear Regulated PSU.

They were already finding the SQ of #1 to be really good (this is mostly thanks to the native DSD DAC and the Single-Ended Triode Tube Amp + Totem Mites).

This shows how we can really get used to the "hash" that greatly affects the high-frequency ranges (I even got re-used to it when I disconnected the Linear Regulated PSU and put the iPhone charger back in while making a revision).

For my French friends who dropped by, they asked to listen to, among other tracks, "Wish you were here" by Pink Floyd. they were amazed at hearing breathing or what she said was "he's moving his cup" before the main loud guitar part starts with setups #2 and 3#.

For my Prince Edward Island friends, they were rather taken up with the 'Presence' of #3, and actually started talking among themselves about whether a recording with that connector would sound better (she's an artist, a vocal coach and has done recordings, one of which we usually have her listen to here since she knows the material really well).

And that's before I also re-instated my DIY AC Filter box in the setup (impression of more power, and larger soundstage).

If someone from the forum, wants to drop by and listen, with or without their own audiophile commercial USB cable, they're more than welcome (this is in Montreal, New Siberia). I can at least demonstrate the three cases above, and perhaps a fourth one without the work done to deal with additional current noise or leakage current noise (this would be between #1 and #2 above).

The recording aspect is also occupying my mind quite a lot: for one, I would like to capture three or four audio files, one with each setup, but of course, here's the rub: ideally, I would need another Linear Regulated PSU and a second USB Connector so as to isolate the capture card itself and reduce the contribution of its own intrinsic noise profile.

I'll probably still do a 'non-ideal' set of captures anyway just to see what gives if at all. We'll see if time allows.
 
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