Comparing adaptive mode USB, Toslink and asynchronous USB

Vincent Kars

WBF Technical Expert: Computer Audio
Jul 1, 2010
860
1
0
My Benchmark DAC 1 has 4 inputs: adaptive mode USB, Toslink, SPDIF and AES/EBU
My iMac has USB and Toslink.
I borrowed a Vlink192 from a friend so now I have an asynchronous USB converter with SPDIF (RCA) and AES/EBU out.

In JRiver I created 3 zones (Benchmark USB, Toslink, Vlink) and linked them.
Now they all play in sync.
All digital volume controls are disabled in JRiver so 100% for each output.
All zones set to WASAPI with the same buffer size.
All zones set to 24 bit and no re-sampling in DSP studio
Too the best of my knowledge no DSP is going on in any zone.

The toggle switch of the Benchmark allows for a rapid switching between the 4 inputs.
Listening was done using a Sennheiser HD600 headphone.

The adaptive mode USB of the Benchmark sounds good. Wide sound stage, dynamic.
The moment I switch to Toslink the individual instruments become more clear, less blurred compared with the adaptive mode USB. Obvious the resolution improves by resolving small details better. As a consequence the soundstage narrows and it sounds less dynamic.
One can also say the adaptive mode screams.
That’s the problem when comparing, there is an audible difference but the qualification is and will always remain a highly subjective judgment.

A likewise but smaller improvement is audible the moment I switch to the Vlink192.
I don’t hear any difference between the SPDIF (BNC cable with RCA adapter) and AES/EBU (110 ohm XLR terminated).
Using the Vlink192 yields a subtle improvement in sound quality.
As all zones send the same bits to the DAC this is probably due to a better jitter performance of the Vlink192.
 

amirm

Banned
Apr 2, 2010
15,813
38
0
Seattle, WA
Ah, I did not realize JRiver can play across multiple interfaces that way! I have my own kludge to make that happen but that is a much better solution (when I worked a Microsoft we had a custom media player hat did that).

Your findings match mine that standard USB sounds is beat by other means.

Thanks as always for great posts and information Vincent.
 

Peter Breuninger

[Industry Expert] Member Sponsor
Jul 20, 2010
1,231
4
0
I'm surprised the Benchmark has adaptive USB. I though they were more cutting edge than that. I just read their site to make sure and yes, they have some kind of proprietary USB system, but not one mention of asynchronous. Gomer Pyle would say "surprise" "surprise."
 

garylkoh

WBF Technical Expert (Speakers & Audio Equipment)
Sep 6, 2010
5,599
225
1,190
Seattle, WA
www.genesisloudspeakers.com
Vincent, did you leave the USB cable still plugged in? When I tried the Benchmark, my results were consistent with yours, but I had thought that the better result from Toslink was because the optical cable was non-conductive and hence the result of galvanic isolation between the computer and the Benchmark.

If you did not unplug the USB cable when switching to Toslink, it means that there is much more to it than just isolation.....
 

Vincent Kars

WBF Technical Expert: Computer Audio
Jul 1, 2010
860
1
0
I'm surprised the Benchmark has adaptive USB. I though they were more cutting edge than that.
This is a design from 2007 if I remember correctly.
At that time 24/96 was already pretty advanced.

We had to wait untill Ayre released the QB9 for async USB (2009?).
The last 2 years almost all new quality DACs feature async USB
Most of them use the XMOS receiver.
 

Vincent Kars

WBF Technical Expert: Computer Audio
Jul 1, 2010
860
1
0
If you did not unplug the USB cable when switching to Toslink, it means that there is much more to it than just isolation.....

I didn’t unplug.
I use a 2008 iMac.
I have heard that the jitter performance of the modern 3.5 V Toslink modules it pretty good.
So I do think it is the input jitter making the difference.

The Vlink192 claims to use galvanic isolation as well.
 

jkeny

Industry Expert, Member Sponsor
Feb 9, 2012
3,374
42
383
Ireland
Vincent, do these reports point to a noisy ground on the iMac and maybe a ground loop problem?
 
Last edited:

Vincent Kars

WBF Technical Expert: Computer Audio
Jul 1, 2010
860
1
0
Vincent, do these reports point to a noisy ground on the iMac and maybe a ground loop problem?

To be honest I don’t see why this should be the case.
I did a very simple experiment.
Play over Toslink
Disconnect/connect the USB during playback. (thanks Gary, nice suggestion)
I don’t hear any difference.

What I can conjecture up is that in case of UAC1 over a full speed bus every 1ns a package arrives. This frame rate is probably not the most stable there is.
If this would be the case using Synchronous synchronization would work well
As it doesn’t this probably means the sample rate guesser has to adjust the speed of the clock every ns. If this result in an intrinsic jitter of 1 ns, it might be too high.

There is an interesting experiment by Jim Lesurf.
He measured the adaptive mode and the asynchronous mode by comparing a DAC Magic using its own USB input and when driven by a Halide (async)
The differences are remarkable


http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Linux/Sound3/TimeForChange.html
 

jkeny

Industry Expert, Member Sponsor
Feb 9, 2012
3,374
42
383
Ireland
To be honest I don’t see why this should be the case.
I did a very simple experiment.
Play over Toslink
Disconnect/connect the USB during playback. (thanks Gary, nice suggestion)
I don’t hear any difference.
Sounds reasonable but I'd like to see the ground connections at play here i.e I don't know if the ground connection through USB would effect the Toslink ground in the same manner as it effects USB or SPDIF connection. In other words it may be ground noise modulation that correlates with signal that is at the root of the problem. Of course, this is only conjecture on my part. You can't try running the iMac from batteries while playing audio over USB or SPDIF for a triangulation of the ground issue?

What I can conjecture up is that in case of UAC1 over a full speed bus every 1ns a package arrives. This frame rate is probably not the most stable there is.
If this would be the case using Synchronous synchronization would work well
As it doesn’t this probably means the sample rate guesser has to adjust the speed of the clock every ns. If this result in an intrinsic jitter of 1 ns, it might be too high.
Yes, sounds reasonable too.

There is an interesting experiment by Jim Lesurf.
He measured the adaptive mode and the asynchronous mode by comparing a DAC Magic using its own USB input and when driven by a Halide (async)
The differences are remarkable


http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Linux/Sound3/TimeForChange.html
Thanks for the links - good interesting reading!
 

About us

  • What’s Best Forum is THE forum for high end audio, product reviews, advice and sharing experiences on the best of everything else. This is THE place where audiophiles and audio companies discuss vintage, contemporary and new audio products, music servers, music streamers, computer audio, digital-to-analog converters, turntables, phono stages, cartridges, reel-to-reel tape machines, speakers, headphones and tube and solid-state amplification. Founded in 2010 What’s Best Forum invites intelligent and courteous people of all interests and backgrounds to describe and discuss the best of everything. From beginners to life-long hobbyists to industry professionals, we enjoy learning about new things and meeting new people, and participating in spirited debates.

Quick Navigation

User Menu

Steve Williams
Site Founder | Site Owner | Administrator
Ron Resnick
Site Co-Owner | Administrator
Julian (The Fixer)
Website Build | Marketing Managersing