King Cello is a pretty darn good phono stage

Mike Lavigne

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 25, 2010
12,473
11,369
4,410
my MM3 speakers were shipped out last Monday. on Monday i also sent my darTZeel NHB-18NS preamp to Switzerland for a battery replacement and charging system upgrade. so i had no phono stage......except the King Cello sitting over next to the Studer twins. it turns out that it comes set up with 47k ohms loading and 60 db of gain; right for my Ortofon Anna. so it ought to be plug and play.

so this afternoon i unplugged the King Cello from the Studer and moved it accross the room in position under the tt, and grabbed the Stax SRM-717 ss headphone amp and connected everything together, plugged the Telos into the King Cello.

i'm now listening thru the Stax O2 Mk1 headphones and it's really very very good. i can't say if it or isn't darTZeel territory, i don't think so. but it's very good and i will most definitely investigate further when the dart pre returns just how close it comes. it seems to have a very low noise floor, nice open and transparent mid range and vivid presentation. the bass has lots of body and articulation. it is basically the same great sound i get from my tapes, which is to say great.

these headphones are pretty good, but obviously are limited at any sort of soundstage.

i'd say considering how great the King Cello is as a tape repro, and it's under $4000 price, the fact that it has a very good phono stage too makes it a huge bargain. and the Ortofon Anna only has .18mv of gain and requires a very low noise phone stage.
 

rockitman

Member Sponsor
Sep 20, 2011
7,097
412
1,210
Northern NY
That is good to hear especially for the MM crowd. I can't play my low impedance MC carts with high impedance values as the bass gets to loose and loses it's clarity/focus. I suspect the wooden arm wand/head shell of the Durand designs must damp bad resonances considerably better than other arm wand materials allowing you that added loading flexibility. Charles should be happy.
 

Mike Lavigne

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 25, 2010
12,473
11,369
4,410
That is good to hear especially for the MM crowd. I can't play my low impedance MC carts with high impedance values as the bass gets to loose and loses it's clarity/focus. I suspect the wooden arm wand/head shell of the Durand designs must damp bad resonances considerably better than other arm wand materials allowing you that added loading flexibility. Charles should be happy.

i think it's fairly easy to change resistive loading by inserting another resistor; although i've not looked myself to see what that takes. maybe Myles, Rich or Charles can chime in about that.

as far as the wooden arm wand on the Durand damping resonances; i have a different take on that issue. to me the Durand is not more damped, it is more precise. i've had other tonearms (the Schroeder, and to a much less degree 3 Reed's) where the wood arm wands do damp things a bit at a slight cost of precision. the Durand is not like those. it's simply resolves more detail than other tonearms (i've expereinced) yet never get's wooley or cloudy. and especially in the bass it can sail thru difficult passages revealing all the detail and not even breaking a sweat. like my master tape. you don't even think about what the arm is doing, it's just music.

you should hear how the Durand Talea or Telos handle 'Malletoba Spank'. there is nothing 'damped' about it!
 
Last edited:

audioarcher

Well-Known Member
May 6, 2012
1,396
51
970
Seattle area
I did not realize your King Cello would work as a phono pre as well. Sounds like you are happy with it's performance as a phono stage. Is the gain adjustable?

Sean
 

Mosin

[Industry Expert]
Mar 11, 2012
895
13
930
Charlie isn't really into vinyl, so this may be a happy accident. I'll ask when I see him at the end of the month. One thing is for sure, though. He builds good stuff with great attention to detail.
 

Mike Lavigne

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 25, 2010
12,473
11,369
4,410
I did not realize your King Cello would work as a phono pre as well. Sounds like you are happy with it's performance as a phono stage. Is the gain adjustable?

Sean

yes, but only 3 steps that i can see; 40db (for MM), 50db (for tape and HO MC's), and 60db that i am using for the .18mv Anna.
 

Peter Breuninger

[Industry Expert] Member Sponsor
Jul 20, 2010
1,231
4
0
Mike,

Does the King have RIAA on-off switching?
 

MylesBAstor

Well-Known Member
Apr 20, 2010
11,236
81
1,725
New York City
Charlie isn't really into vinyl, so this may be a happy accident. I'll ask when I see him at the end of the month. One thing is for sure, though. He builds good stuff with great attention to detail.

Yes but you have to remember its pedigree :) The unit started out as a Cello phono section and I think a Tom Colangelo design.
 

U47

Well-Known Member
Apr 23, 2010
161
5
1,575
Portland, Oregon
www.reeltapes.net
Custom made suits

I thought Charlie would chime in about this by now. The preamps are pretty much bespoke pieces of gear. Here is a custom phono only preamp set up for 78s and early mono LPs(the owner has 3 King/Cello preamps). The majority of the ones made in the last 3 years have switchable RIAA/NAB/IEC eq. and switchable 40/50/60 db gain(Really more like 42/52/62).
 

Attachments

  • 2003_0402Image0002.JPG
    2003_0402Image0002.JPG
    191.9 KB · Views: 2,878

U47

Well-Known Member
Apr 23, 2010
161
5
1,575
Portland, Oregon
www.reeltapes.net
Standard configuration photo

Here is the standard configuration King/Cello tape/phono preamp. Input and output jacks can be installed on the front or rear.

Rich
 

Attachments

  • 2003_0118Image0003.JPG
    2003_0118Image0003.JPG
    267.2 KB · Views: 1,693
Last edited:

ALF

Well-Known Member
Mar 15, 2012
531
243
955
Southwest
Anna would just love more juice...

yes, but only 3 steps that i can see; 40db (for MM), 50db (for tape and HO MC's), and 60db that i am using for the .18mv Anna.

Nice to hear that the Cello can double-up, super!

Now, this Anna...she really needs more robust gain than 60-62db to shine and sing with the all she capable. Simply, she needs a less restrictive interface; there are differences.

Cheers!
ALF
 

Mike Lavigne

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 25, 2010
12,473
11,369
4,410
Nice to hear that the Cello can double-up, super!

Now, this Anna...she really needs more robust gain than 60-62db to shine and sing with the all she capable. Simply, she needs a less restrictive interface; there are differences.

Cheers!
ALF

you could be right. at some point i may try one of Syntax's SUT's on it. i would need to re-solder the dart to the minimum gain to do it so it's not quite plug and play. but still you never know until you try.

thanks,

Mike
 

flez007

Member Sponsor
Aug 31, 2010
2,915
36
435
Mexico City
It surely is a great phono preamp! :)

I use it for both tape and phono, one needs to unplug the back RCA since mine has just one input and a knob at the front to route it properly, mates great with the EMT and looking forward to try it with the Mantis!
 

flez007

Member Sponsor
Aug 31, 2010
2,915
36
435
Mexico City
Yes but you have to remember its pedigree :) The unit started out as a Cello phono section and I think a Tom Colangelo design.

Sorry to show my ignorance again Myles :) Is this argument of yours a good thing or not talking about the KC phono section?
 

Bill Hart

Well-Known Member
May 11, 2012
2,683
174
1,150
Charlie King was demo'ing the unit in the Robin Wyatt room at the NY Waldorf show. It wasn't the 'standard' unit you are showing here, more of a frankenstein lab like thing with big VU meters. I'm not sure if he was using it for the phono set up as well, since they were playing from the Stellavox when I was in the room. But it also appeared to be the only preamp on the rack, and they had a turntable there too.
Found a link in 6 moons to the room. It said it was set up for mono RIAA.
Scroll down.

http://www.6moons.com/industryfeatures/nyc2012/1.html
 

ALF

Well-Known Member
Mar 15, 2012
531
243
955
Southwest
Same bucket...this Syntax

you could be right. at some point i may try one of Syntax's SUT's on it. i would need to re-solder the dart to the minimum gain to do it so it's not quite plug and play. but still you never know until you try.

thanks,

Mike

Hi Mike

Well, the Syntax SUT has ~21 dB of gain, so it is no solution for you...you would still be a little small in what you would need. Regarding the Dart, you are right it would require a hitch to get it up where you will need to be to optimize the performance of this little Anna...you know, the one with the nice voice.

Yes the Anna could be all that it could be...with a little more effort. Well, really more, say in the 68-72
dB range. As you know, there is a doubing effect in every 6dB of additional gain. So, yes...it could be better, much better.

Cheers!
ALF
 

MylesBAstor

Well-Known Member
Apr 20, 2010
11,236
81
1,725
New York City
Charlie King was demo'ing the unit in the Robin Wyatt room at the NY Waldorf show. It wasn't the 'standard' unit you are showing here, more of a frankenstein lab like thing with big VU meters. I'm not sure if he was using it for the phono set up as well, since they were playing from the Stellavox when I was in the room. But it also appeared to be the only preamp on the rack, and they had a turntable there too.
Found a link in 6 moons to the room. It said it was set up for mono RIAA.
Scroll down.

http://www.6moons.com/industryfeatures/nyc2012/1.html

If you're referring to the unit in the middle of the picture of Robin's room, I think that's actually Charlie's version of the Levinson LNP-1. Charlie's King/Cello phono/tape stage is a different piece.
 

MylesBAstor

Well-Known Member
Apr 20, 2010
11,236
81
1,725
New York City
Sorry to show my ignorance again Myles :) Is this argument of yours a good thing or not talking about the KC phono section?

Well I think that the Levinson (the man)/Cello gear were well respected in the industry. So with Charlie's expertise and little more modern parts and updating the power supply (I hope Charlie will chime in as to some of the other updates), he came up with his King/Cello phono/tape stage.
 

Mike Lavigne

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 25, 2010
12,473
11,369
4,410
Hi Mike

Well, the Syntax SUT has ~21 dB of gain, so it is no solution for you...you would still be a little small in what you would need. Regarding the Dart, you are right it would require a hitch to get it up where you will need to be to optimize the performance of this little Anna...you know, the one with the nice voice.

Yes the Anna could be all that it could be...with a little more effort. Well, really more, say in the 68-72
dB range. As you know, there is a doubing effect in every 6dB of additional gain. So, yes...it could be better, much better.

Cheers!
ALF

hi Alan,

i think my dart pre phono that i use for the Anna is set at 63 db of gain where i had it for the A90, there is another step above at 66 db. since it's with Herve right now i'll have him change it. with my higher efficiency speakers on the way with 3 additional db of efficiency that ought to get me there.

thanks for pushing me along on this.

best,

Mike
 

About us

  • What’s Best Forum is THE forum for high end audio, product reviews, advice and sharing experiences on the best of everything else. This is THE place where audiophiles and audio companies discuss vintage, contemporary and new audio products, music servers, music streamers, computer audio, digital-to-analog converters, turntables, phono stages, cartridges, reel-to-reel tape machines, speakers, headphones and tube and solid-state amplification. Founded in 2010 What’s Best Forum invites intelligent and courteous people of all interests and backgrounds to describe and discuss the best of everything. From beginners to life-long hobbyists to industry professionals, we enjoy learning about new things and meeting new people, and participating in spirited debates.

Quick Navigation

User Menu

Steve Williams
Site Founder | Site Owner | Administrator
Ron Resnick
Site Co-Owner | Administrator
Julian (The Fixer)
Website Build | Marketing Managersing