Amplification options with TAD speakers

AudioExplorations

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Apr 5, 2012
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I would like to dedicate a thread to comparing and contrasting various amplification options for TAD speakers.

Impressions have started popping up in various places, I have kept track of those particularly where multiple amps were compared relative to one another.

Note that obviously this is all subjective stuff, commonalities in listening impressions may allow shortlisting of amps that generally seem to work well. Hopefully this list can be expanded over time as more people chime in with their findings.


TAD M2500
- Class 'D' gets a hard time with the Audiophile community, as with all pieces of equipment it is in the implementation that is the key. The TAD M2500 is a bit of the dark horse, it delivers in spades.
- This amplifier is purely about getting to heart of the performance with no additives or artificial enhancements, very open sound, neither warm or cool, superb dynamic contrasts. The speed of this amplifier is quite special as well. The 2500 does have soul too, not a clinical or analytical portrayal of music just realistically honest. Presentation is grain free and projects a large sound stage behind the speakers, large scale material was handled exceptional well as was the more delicate Vivaldi and Kate Rusby compositions. It did require some time to fully present its best intensions, though in fairness all of the other quality pieces did as well. The 2500 strengths are power, poise, superb detail, great staging, dynamics and a very low noise floor; it gets to the music via another route. Again this amplifier will appeal to people seeking a greater reality and intimacy in their music, Oh did I mention the bass prowess of this amplifier, it is rather immense.

TAD M600
- These are without doubt in the Dartzeel NHB 458 league.
- Utopian in nature.

The Krell Evo series
- These produced nice results.

DarTZeel NHB 108
(Note that I personally now use this amp now after living with a burmester 911mk3 for around a year. I absolutely love how this amp sounds on these speakers. I have included some of my listening notes comparing the 911mk3 to the 108B at the bottom of this post.)
- Matches well just lacks real outright power.
- I find it lacks texture and depth, it has superb the speed, detail and dynamics without question, I just feel it has no real musical soul with the TAD's.

Audio Research
- Seems to be hit and miss depending on models.

Mark Levinson 532
- Those looking for a slightly more laid back sound with the CR-1's - an inviting sound that appealed to number of people.

D’Agostino’s Momentum monoblocks
- An interesting pairing; they did make some very enjoyable sounds with real dimensionality plus a good natural pace. First class equipment.
- It's big open and lush sound compliment the CR-1's with grace; it does gravitate a touch on the warm side, but does that matter? My suspicion is for 85% of listeners, not one jot. This amplifier will / is going to win a lot of individuals around with its very special combination of power, texture and listenibility. If you are in the market for a serious stereo power amplifier, the momentum stereo is a must audition.

The Power modules incorporated LA-01 and MB500 monoblocks
- Sterling performance with amazing dynamic shading and sheer freedom from the speakers (totally effortlessness).

Devialet D-Premier
- Did an admirable job of driving the TAD's well (though not at more realistic volume levels) A few rated this combination, a great all round package, though I feel ultimately will not show the CR-1's in their fullest light.
- This pairing did not produce the great things I was expecting of them (They worked very well with the Wilson Sasha's). Certainly not a match made in heaven, I also listened to them on a pair of Q1's, that also did not produce a satisfactory result. These amplifiers are very good, pair them correctly and they will sing.

Burmester 911mk3
- It failed to ignite the real passion in the music which the CR-1 conveys so well with the correct pairings. Fast and dynamic sound, with large scale and great presence: big hifi sound. All the positives, just missing the vital ingredient: an engaging and musical presentation. The 948 conditioner did generate a more open and slightly sweeter sound it again took the sounds away from real music reproduction into the realms of Audiophile Hi Fidelity.
- The pairing for me embodied all that is good about hi fidelity, great dynamics, large sound staging, sweet top end, totally grain free presentation and effortless power. Very fine pieces of equipment, bar none. The missing links for my preferences were simple: The combination just failed to engage me musically, I found it lacked the liquid fluidity of the music that captures the rise and fall in tempo, rhythm, being there sensation and overall emotion. Follow-up: As I’ve mentioned before its performance with the TAD is very good, it does compliment a great number of the TAD’s fortes. A big, open and powerful sound. Yet delicate when required, a very nice detail and tonal balance with quality articulate bass. It delivers pretty much all the traits audiophiles ask for in a quality piece of equipment easily, though as good as it is, and make no mistake it is very good it is not for me. However it does tick a lot of boxes for great many people, in this arena that does count a lot.

MBL
- Not a good match at all, something very odd there

Vitus
- All sweetness and light, not much music. Would be better suited to Focal's

VTL
- With the right speakers can sound nice, not with TAD

Technical Brain (TBP-Zero/EX mono’s)
- Produced a sound that offered superb scale yet with equally superb microdynamics [JA]


_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
DartZeel 108B vs. Burmester 911mk3 - impressions by AudioExplorations.
- The dart portrays music in an incredibly natural and un-electronic sounding fashion. There is zero form of listener fatigue.
- The dart has a much less ‘aggressive’ presentation, much less bothered by lower quality recordings which on the 911 can sound harsh and fatiguing.
- The 911 sounds more precise, however in doing so lowers the ability to engage with the music, particularly with lesser recordings. Hard to describe... maybe the 911 sounds more accurate to the recorded material, but the dart sounds more accurate to the recorded event... if that makes sense.
- Micro-detail: dart extracts much more detail out of the recording. It is more resolving and far more extended into the treble.
- Imaging: The dart conveys a very deep soundstage depth which results in an almost holographic presentation, 911 is flat and 2 dimensional in comparison; everything occurs on the plane between the speakers.
- The bass on the dart sounds (ever so slightly) thicker, slower and less dynamic. In my listening room which is not very large, this is essentially a non-issue, the bass on the dart is excellent, deep, detailed and dynamic. If I had twice or 3 times the air volume to cover I could see this becoming a relevant shortcoming.
 
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joeinid

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Mar 14, 2011
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I thought you were enthusiast of your 911 in combination with the TADs, or maybe I'm just not getting the message of your post...

I guess the grass is always greener ;) I just think he/we are trying to maximize our TAD experience and point out various options. I love my GAT/Dart combo. I also love my all Burmester combo. I do feel with Burmeester and my CR-1's, I'd prefer a warmer source, just my preference.
 

docvale

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Mar 21, 2011
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I am, these are not my own personal impressions.

Well, you know better than me that online you may find everything and all its opposite ;)
I know that Chris from Computer Audiophile is now driving his TADs with Berkeley Alpha DAC MkII, Spectral DMC-30SS MkII e DMA-260. He wrote it's the best system he's ever owned.

I read on an Italian forum that the TAD R1 sounded fantastic with Viva Audio amplification. I also remember, if my memory is ok, that in many shows the TADs were demoed with Pass amplification.
I guess they may sound great with Soulution amplification.
 

Phelonious Ponk

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Jun 30, 2010
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Assuming that amps at this price point will have relatively linear frequency response, I read something like this...

- I find it lacks texture and depth, it has superb the speed, detail and dynamics without question, I just feel it has no real musical soul with the TAD's.

...and wonder what this lacking "musical soul" can possibly be.

Tim
 

AudioExplorations

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Apr 5, 2012
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Well, you know better than me that online you may find everything and all its opposite ;)

Yep your right :) but I hope that at least some sort of commonalities can be found in gear that mates well with the speakers.


I know that Chris from Computer Audiophile is now driving his TADs with Berkeley Alpha DAC MkII, Spectral DMC-30SS MkII e DMA-260. He wrote it's the best system he's ever owned.

I read on an Italian forum that the TAD R1 sounded fantastic with Viva Audio amplification. I also remember, if my memory is ok, that in many shows the TADs were demoed with Pass amplification.
I guess they may sound great with Soulution amplification.

Yep and they were also demoed with Viola Bravo II recently which reportedly sounded great. The CR1/911mk3 is the best system I have ever owned also. The problem is that these are all single data points and not comparative to other amps. 9 times out of 10 the reports will come out positive because they are just damn good sounding speakers, and many will have heard them for the first time. What I am looking for is people who have spent time with auditioning various amps (ideally in the same setting) and hence would be in a position to make more meaningful relative impressions on pro's and con's of each. Hopefully people who have done this will be willing to chime in here.
 

MasterChief

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Jun 26, 2012
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I have heard the big TAD R1 speakers with Audionet AMP MAX, Mark Levinson No.53 and TADs own M600. Everything worked very well with the Ref1 and most bank for the buck was the Audionet. I can´t say that TADs own monoblocks was better; only different (and the price difference is huge!).
 

MasterChief

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Thanks!

Nice to be here, and I recognize so many from the past (Steve Williams aka Oneobgyn and Mike Lavigne from AVS for example)! This forum have the potential to be something extra for sure! I hope I can contribute :)
 

Ultimate Audio

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Jun 28, 2012
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Hello,

Best for me are TAD M-600 and Acoustic System International Grand Mono. We have also very good results with Vitus Audio and Karan Acoustics.

Basically we tested with our brands. Sometimes we have some trade ins and we test...

I also think the Dartzeel and VTL should go fine with them.
 

AudioExplorations

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Apr 5, 2012
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Thanks!

Nice to be here, and I recognize so many from the past (Steve Williams aka Oneobgyn and Mike Lavigne from AVS for example)! This forum have the potential to be something extra for sure! I hope I can contribute :)

Could you describe some of the differences you heard between the amps? It would be very interesting to hear your perspective!
 

joeinid

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Mar 14, 2011
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Hello,

Best for me are TAD M-600 and Acoustic System International Grand Mono. We have also very good results with Vitus Audio and Karan Acoustics.

Basically we tested with our brands. Sometimes we have some trade ins and we test...

I also think the Dartzeel and VTL should go fine with them.

Hi UA,

I think I like my Dartzeel and GAT on my TAD CR-1's because they are warmer and more forgiving to my ears while still being detailed and holographic. The Dartzeel may not have the "balls" of some of the other amps, but it is very satisfying.
 

MasterChief

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Jun 26, 2012
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TAD R1 is, IMHO, one of the best speakers in the world. Audionet is a very neutral amplifier with enough power and finesse so the speaker can deliver their best. I was blown away by the demo! Maybe a little to bright in the upper end.

The demo with TAD:s own amplifiers was a couple of years later but under similar conditions and music (Ultimate Sound&Music in Sweden). I was blown away this time also. This time the upper end was amazing!

So my most professional analysis must be that Audionet and TAD deliver on a similar level with a slightly advantage to TAD. A more comprehensive review than that is not possible :)

Here are a picture of a set up with Audionet (not my picture) "Stockholm High End":

kista154a.jpg

TAD R1, Audionet Max, Audionet Pre G2, Audionet Art G2, dCS Puccini, Isotek.


And from the set up at Ultimate (before they received the TAD preamplifier):

ultimate_tad_1.jpg
 

Ultimate Audio

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Jun 28, 2012
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Hi Joe,

The problem of Dartzeel is precisely that. Sometimes the "eye" starts flashing but for the right speakers is a good amp.
Also understand what you say about warmer amplifiers with TAD but I can assure your with full TAD system with the right cables ( we use Elation from Kubala Sosna) the sound is holographic, detailed, speed and not on the "cold" side at all.

Masterchief,

The Audionet played with TAD R1 in Munich 2010 if my memory doesn't fail me. It was a very good sound but not in the same league of Full TAD system. But for the money Audionet is very interesting...
Give my regards to "our brothers of Ultimate" in Sweeden.

Regards
Miguel
 

joeinid

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Mar 14, 2011
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Hi Miguel,

Thank you for the better description. I would love an all TAD system but it is out of my reach. Thank you for the beautiful photos. :)


Joe
 

joeinid

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Mar 14, 2011
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Hi Joost

Any updates on the amplifier front? From the list in the first post, I wonder how the Levinson 532H (stereo) or 531H (monos) would sound. Talk about bang for the buck, the 532H is a Stereophile Calss A recommended component.

Are you thinking of trying different amplification?
 

AudioExplorations

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Apr 5, 2012
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Hi Joost

Any updates on the amplifier front? From the list in the first post, I wonder how the Levinson 532H (stereo) or 531H (monos) would sound. Talk about bang for the buck, the 532H is a Stereophile Calss A recommended component.

Are you thinking of trying different amplification?

Hi Joe, I'm not really on the market for a new amp as I am hugely enjoying my current setup, however I would love to hear how the CR1's work with the following amps:

TAD M2500 stereo and M600 mono's
DartZeel NHB-108's (dual to overcome power limitation)
D'Agostino Momentum (stereo & mono's)

I doubt any improvement over the 911 will be significant, I may look into cable optimisation in the near future when some funds become available....
 

joeinid

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Mar 14, 2011
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Hi Joost,

I would love to hear the M-2500/M-600 amps with their C-2000 preamp/dac. I would even like to hear the D'Agostino amps at some point.

With regard to the DartZeel NHB-108, I have not really felt the need for more power. I think it a psychological necessity wanting 2 amps or running monos. I don't crank it or play really bass heavy music so I actually think I do have enough power (for my needs). My 108 may not be as "impressive" as the 911 monos, but I do seem to be enjoying the 108 more. If I could only get a Dartzeel preamp to pair up the 108 ....... Hmmmmmm. I would love a pair of the NHB-458's, just for the heck of it.
 

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